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Old 01-02-2009, 05:01 PM   #21
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I'm not sure, I can't really say. Someone told me that very high ammonia levels like yours can stall the cycle as well as cause the wrong kind of bacteria to grow.

Too much ammonia?
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Old 01-02-2009, 05:56 PM   #22
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Won't excessively high ammonia be detrimental to anything that might "come back" on his Live Rock? Something I read recently.
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Old 01-02-2009, 06:12 PM   #23
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Yes, it can be detremental to all life in the tank.
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Old 01-02-2009, 06:12 PM   #24
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Well I do feel bad for you Bruce as you did get some bad advice. Your LFS gave you some bad advice. Alot of them go with cycling with fish because they stand to make a sale. We at AA here go by the fishless cycle for this reason as we dont want to see anything suffer. As I have stated before the with fish cycle and the fishless cycle accomplish the very same thing. The ONLY difference is the health problems that these fish have to go through. There was some advice given here that IMO did not take the fishes health seriously. That`s his opinion and nothing we can do about it but we can all see the results here. If it was me I would do PWC`s and get the ammonia down to a respectable level. It might even be a good idea to return the fish and inverts till the cycle is over. Here is a good article for you to read about what goes on with a cycle. I feel bad for you Bruce because I know it`s frustrating. If I could make a suggestion though when folks post a opinion weigh everything out. Look at their experience and check out their evidence. This will help in evaluating someone`s post.
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Old 01-02-2009, 06:19 PM   #25
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Why don't I just take out the rock, and re-cure it? Will that solve my problem? Then I can do another water change and the original live rock can start to process the ammonia, and I can finish making the vunuatu rock healthy. I can buy a 20 gallon tank today on the way home from work. Would that make sense?

Finally, would the two days at >8 ppm cause irreversible damage to the existing rock and animals?

Everyone has been very helpful to me through this!
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Old 01-02-2009, 06:29 PM   #26
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No the ammonia will not cause damage to the rock. The nitrifying bacteria will take care of the ammonia over time. If it was me I would just do some frequent PWC`s and if you are going to get a twenty gallon tank maybe you could make a Quarantine Tank out of it for the fish and inverts. Hang in there we will get through this.
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Old 01-03-2009, 02:18 AM   #27
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...But it is very difficult when I get opinions ranging from "do no water changes" (local fish store advice, and here,) to "do complete change of water".
I think if you look back through this thread, you only had one person that advised you to "not go crazy with water changes". If you look back at this person's short history here, and their attitude toward cycling with fish, this advice shouldn't surprise you. As melosu mentioned, it's unfortunate that advise, and that of the LFS, is giving you grief and started you down a difficult path. But just like any hobby I've been in, there are always going to be different opinions of how to do things, and it's up to you to sort out the good from the bad. But anyway...

If it was my tank, I'd get anything live out of it. I'd then track your ammonia/nitrite/nitrates to gauge where I was in my cycle. You have plenty of ammonia to get your cycle going without anything extra in there. In 4-6 weeks, your ammonia and nitrites will be at zero, and you can do water changes to get your nitrate levels down to near zero. And no... that much ammonia won't make the "wrong" type of bacteria - it'll just kill most of the stuff living off your rock, and possibly slow down the reproduction of the bacteria you're trying to get going.

If you keep the fish in there, then 30% water changes every couple days - making sure the water change water matches the salinity and temperature of your main tank - would be the best you could do for the fish. I'd keep doing water changes until you get the ammonia down to around 1.0 ppm. That will keep the cycle going and give your fish a fighting chance if they have to remain there.
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Old 01-03-2009, 12:04 PM   #28
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I set up a quarantine tank last night, and the salt was not fully dissolved but when I looked at the fish, he was on his side, and appeared just about dead. Well anyway I put him into the tank, because I felt that was better than just letting it die. It broke my heart seeing the little guy gasping for air.

BUT: This morning not only was he alive, but when I fed him he actually ate! I went to the tank and took out the other little guy, who was hiding in a corner. But he was so lethergic that it was no trouble getting him into the tank. I think the two fish will be okay. I was amazed at how quickly they came back.

I also placed a piece of the good live rock into the new tank, to help with the water chemistry.

I am glad I listened to you all telling me to get the fish out of there. The snails and crabs will be going into the new tank in a few minutes, if I can find them. They are very good at hiding!

I took some tank water, diluted it fifty percent, then tested, and the reading was 4, so I AM at 8 ppm right now. The nitrites are starting to climb, I have not tested nitrates yet today. But I think the tank is starting to re-establish itself.

Bruce
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Old 01-03-2009, 02:22 PM   #29
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That`s good news. This is a perfect example that cycling with fish is not good. Get the inverts out to if you can. Continue to monitor your main tank and wait out the cycle.
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Old 01-03-2009, 02:32 PM   #30
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I'm glad to hear this. You'll need to monitor your QT as well and do water changes as necessary to keep the fish healthy.
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