Added live rock and ammonia shot up

[bar]

So I added cured live rock to my tank. The rock has been curing for four weeks. The next morning, today, my fish looked very stresses, and I tested the ammonia. It's up at 8 ppm from zero! I had 160 pounds of LR already and put in 50 pounds of Vunuatu for my 125 tank. Am I in serious trouble? All I have are chromis right now, with some snails and hermit crabs.

I plan on changing ten gallons when I get home from work this afternoon.

Thanks!

 

[sooju]

8 ppm is lethal - can you change more than 10 gallons? that's less than 10%

 

[bar]

I guess I have no choice but to change more. I mixed up 10 gallons this morning and will add it this afternoon, then mix up some more and add it later. I assume it is better to add freshly mixed water than wait to age it with the ammonia so high.

Bruce

 

[melosu58]

Evidently the rock was not cured. Die off from the rock probably caused the spike. BTW you did cycle the tank first right? Where did you get this rock and what makes you think it was already cured?

 

[bar]

Well, I got it from the person who moved my tank, and he said that he purchased the rock about five weeks ago, and cured it for me, and he tested the water the rock was in. I test my water weekly and the ammonia has always been at zero, nitrites zero, and zitrates at 5 to 10 PPM. I put in a call to the "fish guy", and we shall see what he says.

 

[919]

Dont go crazy with the water changes, it will only make the adjustment last longer. Chromis are very hardy fish, alot of people use them when they cycle with fish.

Take a deep breath you will be fine.

 

[melosu58]

IIMO If you have 8 ppm then you need to do some PWC`s. That level is very lethal and PWC`s are necessary to get it down. Only people that dont know any better cycle with fish. Do some PWC`s then take a deep breath and you`ll be fine.

 

[919]

I am only saying don’t go crazy with the water changes... People have a tendency to over react, and overly stress the fish out.

I did -0- PWC for all the weeks I was cycling with my fish. It was the worst period of my life, I desperately wanted to change the water but I could not for the integrity of the cycle.

I take offense to the comment about cycling with fish, I knew the risks and rewards and I was entirely comfortable with them. That comment was completely uncalled for.

 

[melosu58]

It was the truth. How do you take offense about the truth. We are still awaiting your proof that these fish were healthy and OK durin g the cycle. Any proof that you can offer us will go along way here.

 

[Ziggy953]

How long had the tank been set up when you saw the sudden spike in your ammonia? Are all of your fish accounted for? Could one have died? Did you have any shrimp or a starfish or something else in the tank that could have died?

With a 125g tank and high ammonia doing a 10g water change isn't going to help a lot. You really need to look at 30g or more to have an impact. Regardless of whether your cycle is complete or not you need to get those ammonia levels down.

Walmart carries 32g trash cans for about $12 that are perfect for mixing SW in. I have 2 that I use for this purpose. See if you can do a larger PWC to have a greater impact on the levels.

 

[bar]

Well, thanks for your assistance. I when over to the LFS and they gave me some advice also. They said that since there is not much in the tank anyway, and chromis are good for cycling and can tolerate high ammonia, just treat this as a new tank and see what happens. The snails and hermits are starting to die, but I can accept that. Just to clarify, there was nothing in the tank but three blue green chromis and ten hermit crabs, and twenty small snails, turbo and one other type. There is no question that it was the rock.
I spoke with the "fish guy" who sold it to me and told him what happened, and he said he will replace anything that dies. It doesn't make up for my hassle, but it is at least a gesture of good will.

So I have let the light level go down, and did a small partial change if 15 gallons, which might give the fish a fighting chance. My understanding is that during cycling you don't want to drop the ammonia deliberately because that delays the growth of the ammonia eating bacteria.

So I think I will be okay.

Bruce

 

[jonnythan]

I am only saying don’t go crazy with the water changes... People have a tendency to over react, and overly stress the fish out.

I did -0- PWC for all the weeks I was cycling with my fish. It was the worst period of my life, I desperately wanted to change the water but I could not for the integrity of the cycle.

I take offense to the comment about cycling with fish, I knew the risks and rewards and I was entirely comfortable with them. That comment was completely uncalled for.

Water changes don't stress fish that much.

>5 ppm ammonia does.

 

[bar]

Here is a follow up:
I just tested the tank for ammonia and nitrites. The nitrite level is starting to climb, at .25 , but the ammonia level is still reading 8 ppm, which I assume means that it was even greater than 8 to begin with and may still be >8. At least the system is starting to cycle. Of my three BG chromis, one is now eating and swimming around, one just sits at the bottom, and one is not to be seen. The snails are dropping like flies, but the hermit crabs are hanging on, and enjoying the feast. Well, I guess it is a good lesson to learn, and at least I did not have any expensive fish in there.
Thanks, once again for all your help.
Bruce

 

[neilanh]

I'm a little shocked that you're willing to sit by and watch all this happen and be passive around it, despite the advice of all of these folks here who have been doing this for years, some of them decades.

Doing a water change to get the ammonia levels down some isn't going to stop your cycle, unless you did a 100% change and literally got all of the ammonia out. Getting it down even by half is going to give your fish and CUC a fighting chance, letting it stay way up at 8+ is sentencing them all to their death.

The fact that this is probably coming from your LR, which doesn't sound to have been cured properly, means that there's more coming where the original 8ppm came from. Which means there's no telling how high it's going to get or even how high it already is. Want to check? Dilute some of your tank water with RO water (50/50 mix) and test. If you read 4 in this mixture, then double it (since half the water was RO) and your tank is at 8ppm. If you read 8ppm in this mixture, then you're above 16ppm and need to try again with a 75/25 mixture (then multiply the reading by 4).

Add to that the fact that you know snails and crabs are dieing, that's adding to your ammonia too.

 

[melosu58]

I agree that the ammonia is getting too high. I would do a good size PWC to get that ammonia down. As Neilanh said your cycle will keep on going. Maybe a 30-40% PWC. It will give your CUC a chance.

 

[austinsdad]

With a 125g tank, you should really consider the trash can on wheels. The Brute 44g and optional wheel base will help you a lot. With a new tank, things can go south real fast. Having 30-40 gallons of premixed, aged SW may save you and your livestock during this period.

Also, if I may, the comment about "those who don't know any better" was just that - compared to those who know about fishless cycling as a better, more humane option. Not a knock or a put down. Even though damsels and chromis are hardy fish, and used to cycle, it is VERY hard on them when the ammoinia and nitrites get that high. Yes they can live thru a cycle, but it was hard on them.

You stand a good chance of losing your snails and crabs IMO.

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

...Of my three BG chromis, one is now eating and swimming around, one just sits at the bottom, and one is not to be seen. The snails are dropping like flies, but the hermit crabs are hanging on, and enjoying the feast. Well, I guess it is a good lesson to learn, and at least I did not have any expensive fish in there....

Like Neil, I'm a little confused. Seems like you know what the problem is, but are unwilling to do anything about it to try and get the tank parameters back in line. As things continue to die (and they will), your ammonia will go higher, causing more things to die, making your ammonia go higher...

I bet those chromis in your tank wish they were "expensive fish".

 

[bar]

Well, I feel like I am getting conflicting responses from everyone I speak to. One response told me not to do a water change as that will delay the cycling, another said do a 30 to 50% change. The fish guy who sold me the "cured" rock didn't even call me back! So he's history, frankly.
I think I am being anything but passive about this. I feel very sorry for the animals, cheap or not!
I already have been doing partial water changes since this fiasco began, it's just very frustrating getting so many completely different solutions to the problem. I know that everything is likely to die if it does not get better, and I am not naive. But it is very difficult when I get opinions ranging from "do no water changes" (local fish store advice, and here,) to "do complete change of water".

 

[jonnythan]

Doing a water change will NOT delay the cycling. That is absolutely not true. As long as there is a little bit of ammona (1 ppm) the cycling will continue unabated.

You need to bring the ammonia level down big time. Do several 30-40% water changes, checking each time. Putting in some Ammo-Lock or SeaChem Prime will help neutralize the ammonia from being toxic to your fish and not affect your cycle.

You can also call your LFS to see if they have some Fritz-Zyme Turbo Start or similar in their fridge. This is a culture of live nitrifying bacteria that may help as well. You'd want to add this after you do your PWCs.

 

[bar]

I will do another change when I get home tonight (my third). You know, this has been very frustrating because my tank was working perfectly, with excellent water chemistry, healthy fish, and no problems. I don't understand how the fish guy did not return my call. I would have expected him to rush over to fix the problem.

I've been thinking. If I had simply removed the animals from the tank at the very beginning, and placed them into another tank, would the tank have re-cycled normally, or at that ammonia level is it a problem regardless?