Aquarium newbie with monster tank

[loaded]

Hello all,

I am a Brit living in the Czech Republic. My wife and I have been diving for years and we decided a couple of years ago to get a salt water aquarium. We have a lot of hobbies already, so when selecting our 'expert' he needed to be local and prepared to do all the work setting up and maintenance etc over time. Basically he took our money, built us a tank, put some fish in it and ran away!

We had a long large tank with a Moray eel who lived in an amphora, some cleaner shrimp and a couple of starfish. I must say we trusted the guy completely from the start and the whole set up was absolutely wonderful.

Then we started having problems, at first we had a brown residue on everything, which he said would go away, then I had to clean the tank very regularly. The chamber which holds the filtration system and the pumps started overflowing and we had a couple of powercuts, which didn't help matters.

We got in another expert, of course he poured water (figuratively) all over his predecessors work and told us we would have to pay another 1/2x (x being the original cost of everything) to get things back. Then our moray died.

We lost hope and today I decided to take out all the water, sand, coral, stones and everything we had in there, it was filthy.

Now we are left with an empty (but remarkably clean!) tank with nothing in it. The tank is a large rectangular one, in one corner a piece of glass separates off a triangular smaller tank and water flows slightly over the glass into a chamber filled with porous rocky coral. There is a pipe in the middle, perhaps 6-8 inches high and the water flows over that and into a chamber below the tank, firstly into a separate section filled with more coral and then over the surface of the glass partition in there and into a chamber which contains a Wave Skimmer 1200P and an adequate 2000 litre per minute pump, which sends the (clean?) water back up to the triangular chamber and just over the glass partition back into the tank.

I hope some of this makes sense. I am on a steep learning curve, which is to say I know nothing and need to learn quite a lot to get this working.

I have been told the filtration system is totally inadequate by people who have a vested interest in selling me another one and I have totally lost faith in the honesty of the trade over here. I would live to get a nice salt water aquarium back up and running, with minimum maintenance and would like to incorporate the existing equipment, if is up to the job.

I assume most aquaria are custom, but I would just like to point out that the main tank is 10mm toughened glass and the lower section which houses the pumps and skimmer is thin custom glass, fitted into the cupboard on which the tank sits. There were also some 'tights' filled with bits of carbon and lumps of blue foam of varying grades all around, in a poor state (I had been told this contained micro bacteria which cleaned my tank) and I removed this also, as it seems ineffectual and at best is filthy, as everything else.

If anyone is minded to give me a hand with this, I would be extremely grateful. I moderate on a DVD burning website, so know how difficult it is to get started for some people in a new topic and find forums can be very helpful places. I also am a vintage RC expert, so if you need advice on either DVD or RC I can trade that for advice here

Sometimes it is easy to say, do a search on the forums, but I don't even really know what to search for! Any advice would be extremely gratefully received, even if it is just to tell me where to go, so to speak!

Keep well,

Paul.

PS : Just remembered a link to show you what it used to look like! In the door underneath on the right is the chamber with the pumps and 'filtration'

YouTube - Mohammed Eel Fayed

 

[roka64]

Beautiful tank! I am going to move this to the SW getting started section, I think you'll get great feedback there!
Hang in there and we will be more than happy to help!

 

[Drewbie]

Iam gonna leave it to the experts but to help with your reading in the meantime that tank mentioned below is what called a sump. This is actually a great filtration system if you have enough live rock

The guys/girls are going to ask you have much live rock you have

Water water parameters are

size of the tank

etc

put as much info as you can and they will better be able to help you.

 

[loaded]

I have loads of 'rock' coral, or whatever it is. Little pencils, they were lying in the bottom of the tank, in the overflow bit on the side and in a big compartment in the bottom sump (thanks for the new word!) I have dredged them out, as they were filthy and have put them aside. I was thinking of soaking them in bleach and water, then standing them in fresh water for a few days, changing it once or twice to get the bleach out.

I have also just noticed that the top of the skimmer (the cup which is clear plastic) has had the top cut off it to fit inside the cupboard. It is perhaps 3/4 its original size.

 

[CaptainAhab]

Without looking up all your equipment, it sure looks like you have a nice setup. You have a reef ready tank (holes drilled in it to support a sump) along with a sump that includes more live rock (though I'm not sure that's really what it is, live rock), a skimmer and a return pump to get the water back. Very nice for filtration.

The brown residue was most probably diatoms that would have eventually gone away on their own. They are pretty much a guarantee for a new setup. Id' venture to guess we all had them and at times they reappear and disappear again to some degree. So there were probably no worries there.

Some of the obvious questions that will help:

Did you (or your service) cycle your tank?
Did you test your water parameters? ammonia/nitrite/nitrate/ph etc?
Did you have any powerheads in the tank? The powerheads help getting oxygen into the tank and also keep debris suspended so that your overflow can route it to your sump/skimmer

Your substrate sounds and looks like big ole hunks of crushed coral or some man made concoction ('little pencils"). If it is it would have needed to have been gravel vacuumed on a regular basis to get all the debris out. Sand would have been much better.

It's probably going to take a bit of back and forth to sort it all out. I guess the big question is are you trying to see what went wrong (history lesson) or just advice on how to get it setup .... ummmm... better I guess is the word?

 

[Drewbie]

Do not put them in bleech

again until the experts chime in

The rock will grow bacteria that bacteria is what cleans your tank

My guess is your probably gonna have to recure it and start over again again the experts will probably explain curing better then I can..

Rule of thumb is apx 1 lbs to 1.5 lbs of rock per gallon of water.

your explanation of pencils means you probably don't have enough. Live rock is usually small bolder sized (bigger)

 

[Drewbie]

Yea I can see what you mean from Pencils from the video that is your substrate or bed like captain said that's probably crushed coral and not live rock.

 

[CaptainAhab]

If you've tore the whole thing down, bleaching them won't be a problem. Just buy a good quality dechlor (Prime if it's available) to soak them in afterward, then air dry and smell. If they still smell like bleach. dechlor again... and repeat.

You don't need 'live rock', you just need some where porous for your bacteria to colonize and do their duty. Most trend toward live rock because it's porus and has lots of area for the colonization AND it's ascetically pleasing and looks like the ocean floor. However you can buy fake stuff, you can buy 'things' (the words escape me) that are very porus that come w/ canister filters amongst other things.

In the end it all depends on what you want it to look like and how you want it to run. All those decisions have a bearing on how hard the upkeep is going to be. Some run HOB filters only (hang on back), some skimmers and LR (or equivalent) only, some canisters, or any combination. Each has their ups and downs and unique maintance routines.

 

[loaded]

Hi and thanks for your response

The brown residue started at the beginning and I never got rid of it, until today. The chap did actually come back a few times, each time with some preparation to rid me of the diatoms and each time they remained. After our Moray sadly died, the tank wasn't actually particularly dirty and we were told (again, I reckon a lot of BS, as we are total novices) that the Moray died because it is a dirty fish with a lot of waste. Why he gave it to us then I will never know, we feel really bad, guilty and responsible, even though the advice was all wrong.

In answer to your questions, we have never personally cycled our tank, I am not even sure what you mean by cycling, exactly, when he came a few times he spent a long time cleaning, but I don't know exactly what he did.

We have never tested the water, no need to we were told.

I don't know what a powerhead is!

I think the rock is natural coral, as it is random in size. It is filthy now, should I bleach it all, then clean it with fresh water and put everything back together? I have removed every single part and cleaned it.

I would love to know what went wrong to avoid it happening again and to know how to set up from scratch. To be honest, we were so upset, we have considered scrapping the saltie tank altogether and making it into a terrarium or freshie instead. We are sticking to the salt plan for now though, so long as what we have is adequate and I can get my knowledge level up. Trouble is the other company said the installation doesn't filter anything, but I don't believe them either, as they took one look at our house (it is kinda big and kinda nice) and I saw the look of Kaching in their eyes.

Gravel vacuuming? OK, what is that then? I had better do a search on the forums for that!

Please bear in mind - nice tank, nice set up - owner newbie moron with majot dorkage in this area. The 'idea' was for this to be a thing of beauty for us and he would look after it for us every couple of weeks.....we are still waiting....

P.

 

[CaptainAhab]

I need to run but you can bet someone here will post a couple of links:

1) how to cycle a tank
2) basic equipment for a SW tank.

Hang tight. Knowledge is power with these kind of people. Challenge them with facts and you may find a different attitude or yo may find you don't need them at all!

 

[loaded]

Guys, thanks for your responses...

He is long gone, the last message my wife left for him left nothing to the imagination

So, it is down to me to learn.

Good news : Sounds like we have a good set up and no need to buy anything (much).

Current situation : Tank totally empty of everything, including water and 100% clean (I use household cleaners, I guess I should have used something fish friendly - I am hoping I can leave it for a couple of weeks and most of the toxins will disappear.)

A few huge buckets of water sit outside filled mostly with thousands of little 'pencils'. I have about 100 gallons of water, so my guess is that I need 150 lbs of rock, or 70 kilos, where I come from! After lifting the buckets, I would say that I have less than than in small pencils and 3-4 huge porous rocks weighing 10-15 lbs each, which were in the tank themselves, although I must say not all of that weight is in the filter, about half is probably in the tank.

I hadn't realised that these 'pencils' were part of the filtration system, I just thought they were decoration, but when I opened the sump chamber, I found loads in there too. I will weigh what I have and figure out if I need more. My guess is he probably knows the ratio, so perhaps enough were provided. They are foul, so in the bleach they all go.

I have cleaned all pumps and skimmer, but I am worried the top was partly shawn off to fit the chamber in the sump. Perhaps this affects its functionality?

Since I will be cleaning this from now on, seems I need to invest in some cleaning equipment, now what is a gravel vacuum!

Keep well,

P.

 

[thincat]

Hi and welcome, Try this link and read up on the articles on the right.
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/articles/ There are things like how to cycle your tank, which you will have to do again and other articles that should bring your knowledge up quite a bit.
You mentioned blue balls and other shapes. That would be your Wet/dry filter and is still an important part of a FOWLR (fish only with live rock) system. And yes it gets dirty. You should vacume that up to as part of your regular tank cleaning duties. Don't think of it as work, think of it as meditation and relaxation. You need to get a test kit to test the water as you recycle your tank. I'll let you gat a grip on this information . So let us know how far along you are in setting the tank back up.
How many gallons is your tank?
If all your coral is dried up you may have to purchase a few pounds of LR(live rock) to reseed your tank with the proper saltwater bacteria.
1) just rinse off the rocks and put them back in the tank again.
2) fill with saltwater to an SG (specific Gravity)...Salinity of ~1.025
3) When you find out how many gallons add one shrimp per 50 gallons of water to start the cycle (this is your ammonia)
sit back and let nature take it's course

 

[CaptainAhab]

sumps : Understanding Sumps

cycle : The Aquarium Nitrogen Cycle

equipment : http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f14/stock-list-and-tips-for-maintaining-your-sw-tank-73477.html

 

[loaded]

Hi there guys

Sorry I have been off for a while, basically got busy after cleaning the aquarium and piled the various parts in the garage after cleaning.

So where are we now?

I have some parameters for you, which are as follows: (Please forgive UK/European terms and units!)

1) The tank is 376 litres in capacity, when taking into account the exact internal volume of the tank (ie not outside measurements) and including the little corner 'hidden' part where the water slips down into the 'sump'. The volume of the sump isn't included in this, I guess it has another 30 litres or so, when filled half (which is what it should be, from memory) making lets say 400 litres (about 100 US Gallons).

2) The 'pencils' have all been bleached lightly (ie with a water and bleach solution) for about a week. They came out looking nice, white and clean (but smelling of bleach a bit). They were rinsed thoroughly in non chlorinated/flourinated water (from our well, not the tap) many times, then laid out in the sun to dry for over a month. They have no bleach smell at all and I couldn't find a 'debleacher'. I am confident they are clean and smell of no bleach. I currently have 27 kilos (about 60 lbs) of this kind of coral rock and there is about 3 large (8-12 inch) heavy (about 10 lb) rocks as well, which are somewhat porous, although they may be there for show more than as 'live rocks'. These are also very clean and don't have any bleach smell.

All the equipment has also been cleaned and dried and put back (just put, not installed or connected) into the sump.

I guess I am at next step stage, which is to take stock and take a leap getting this done again. One thing I notice is that the sump is inaccessible without taking it out, I can't clean the corals in the back with a vacuum without an enormous effort, any ideas on this?

Shall I just connect everything up, buy some salt, a vacuum and some live rocks and fill her up with water and stand well back?



I have included some pictures to help get to grips with what I have got here.

Thanks in advance for your help and answers so far and further advice is appreciated.

P.

 

[InfernoST]

I would replace the sticks with Aragonite sand and if you can use Reverse osmosis deionized water instead of tap or well water because this will reduce the Nitrates, phosphates, silicates, chlorine/chloramine (Usually added by your municipality) in your tank. The afore mentioned when present in high levels will make your life very difficult, the lower these levels the better your tank will be.

 

[loaded]

Hi there, thanks for the advice, there was some sand, although I don't know what Arogonite sand is, perhaps I can use both, as I like the look of the corals too? I will look up arogonite sand.

Also, I have my own well water and we add nothing, except a tiny amount of silver every 3 months or so. By tiny, I mean absolutely tiny, less than a gram. We haven't added any for a while, though in any event my understanding is silver and even heavy metals such as gold are in real sea water and the good sea water preparations anyway?

Paul.

 

[InfernoST]

What we want to do is remove as much of the Total dissolved solids in the water as possible so we have a clean slate to start with, then when you add the salt mix, the mix puts all of the elements back into the water that the fish need to thrive. Increased phosphates, silicates, nitrates increase undesired algae growth at a very rapid rate making the tank more difficult to maintain.
As for your pencils, I like them as well but don't find them practical because all of the excess food and fish waste will get stuck down in there where your clean up crew will be unable to get to it creating an increase in nitrates which is a bad thing. The choice is yours, if you keep them you are going to be cleaning them out quite frequently.
What you can do as well is get some good test kit that will test for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, PH, alkalinity, phosphates, copper (a very bad thing and may be in your well water) and silicates to start with. When you get the test kits I would start by testing the well water 1st and see what all of the levels are prior to using it in the tank so you know what is and what is not contributing to a potential future problem.

 

[loaded]

Great advice, I have already had our well water professionally tested, so will look out the results for the metals etc. I hear you regarding keeping the water 'pure' and I have been told that our well water is pretty good, lets put it this way, we drink it and bathe in it every day

That doesn't mean good for fish though, I will get a water tester and also find some way of 'repopulating' the bacteria.

When you say cleaning out, do you mean with a vacuum (which I don't mind) or removing and cleaning (which was quite a chore!)

Keep well!

P.

 

[InfernoST]

Starting the cycle is easy, mix your saltwater, get a couple of medium size shrimp uncooked with the shell on (Put them in a filter media bag)from your fish market, put them in the tank and let it sit for a couple of weeks (the whole tank including sump must be online). This is where you will need to monitor your ammonia, nitrites and nitrates. At 1st your ammonia will increase then when the bacteria begin to develop the ammonia will drop to 0 and your nitrites will increase (BTW both ammonia and nitrites are extremely toxic to fish this why we chose the fishless method of cycling the tank) then they will come down to 0 and your nitrates will increase at which point your tank is considered cycled . When your ammonia and nitrites are at 0 perform a 50% water change (Leave the shrimp in the tank until you are ready to get some livestock and then you should remove the shrimp 2 days prior to putting any livestock in the tank. It's usually a good idea to wait a week or two after the water change to monitor the tanks parameters to insure stability in the environment before introducing any livestock) when the cycle has completed this will help reduce the nitrates in the tank which BTW should be kept <30ppm for fowlr and really low for a reef setup.
Vacuuming the pencils is correct but don't think it will help all that much because the pieces are fairly large.

 

[loaded]

I have looked up the well water statistics and have the following info, although Copper is not mentioned:

Ammonium Ion <0.03 mg/l
Nitrates 35.4 mg/l
Nitrogen 0.027 mg/l
Manganese <0.5 mg/l
pH 6.62
Iron 0.04 mg/l

There are bunch of other things like clarity, smell, colour, cloudiness, bacteria, but all within normal levels for people.

I am not sure if these mean anything fish wise, allegedly this water is drinkable!

Paul.