Bak-Pak 2 vs. Prizm+Emperor 280: recommendations/advice?

[leafyseadragon]

I am setting up a 37 gallon fish only tank. I have done some research already, and given my budget these are my two filtration & skimmer options:

1. CPR Bak Pak 2
2. Red Sea Prizm with an Emperor 280

Pricewise, these two options are about the same (~$130). I have heard that the Bak Pak is a higher maintenance skimmer, and that the Prizms can be noisy. The Bak Pak is an all-in-one unit, but the second option also offers mechanical filtration.

Please help! I am looking for reasons to choose one option over the other. Any advice/comments would be appreciated.

 

[loganj]

I guess you aren't going to have LR in the tank? If not, then I'd go with the Prizm/Emp 280 option. The Emperor 280 is as good a power filter as money can buy. The Prizms, IME, aren't any louder than any other venturi skimmer. If you can put in about 75lbs of LR, you can get by with just a skimmer as the LR will be the filter. The Aqua C Remora skimmers are good as well.

 

[leafyseadragon]

Oops. Forgot to mention that. I plan on between 20-30 lbs of live rock in the tank too. Does that change your answer?

 

[BrianH]

I would recommend the Aqua C Remora as best followed by the Bak Pak and in 3rd(a far 3rd by the way) the prizm. If you plan on live rock and want a decent skimmer, go for either the remora or bak pak. They are in a different league than the prizm IMHO.

Brian

 

[gucci2]

I would go with the BakPak and the Live rock. I have a bak pak and speak from expereince with it. It is a very good (if not the best, in my opinion)

 

[HoopsGuru]

I would not use another Prism skimmer if Red Sea paid me to do so. They shouldn't even be called a skimmer, because they don't.

 

[BrianH]

Hoops,

I had a prizm on my 50 gal reef. Needless to say it didn't do the job. I changed to a remora pro and the difference is immeasurable. The best HOT skimmer on the market (most expensive too).
I moved the prizm to my 10 gal nano/grow out tank and it seems to be ok. So far I'd only recommend the prizm for very small tanks.

Brian

 

[stresco]

I've got the CPR BackPack on my 55 gal and IMO seems to be worth the money.

 

[loganj]

I'd have to agree that the Remora is a great skimmer. I read a comparison between the Remora and the BakPak recently (can find it if anyone is interested) and the Remora was clearly a better performer. The Prizm, although it's nowhere near the skimmer that either the Remora or the BakPak is, will still pull a lot of DOC's out. We use one at the store on a 55 that usually houses a couple of large fish and it does a fairly good job. A customer has a Prizm Pro and it does a good job on her 75g. Both are somewhat touchy about the air adjustment. I actually use a Lee CC on my growout tanks and it produces a cup full every day of good dry skimate. If there is a cheesier skimmer out there than that one, I don't know what it is . But, it works. Buy the Remora if it's in the budget. If not, any skimmer is better than none. A Berlin HOT would also be an option. If you want a power filter though, the Emperor is the best available in terms of filtration capacity and longevity.

 

[leafyseadragon]

Thanks to everyone for their replies. Unfortunately, the Aqua C Remora is just out of my price range.

I was originally leaning towards the Prizm/Emperor pair over the Bak Pak. Then I read the instruction manuals for both skimmers at the manufacturer's websites:

From reading the instructions for the Prizm, it seems that adjusting for the water level is not critical. Just keep the water level above the strainer. The collection cup isn't adjustable anyway.

However, it seems that adjusting the collection cup for the Bak Pak at 1/8" can be dicey if the water level is not constant. What happens with its efficiency as the water in the tank evaporates over the course of a day or two between topoffs? I've never used a skimmer before.

I guess I was leaning toward the Prizm because of laziness.
Now I am leaning towards the Bak Pak.

 

[HoopsGuru]

Seriously, the Prizm is far less than a prize for laziness. If you are looking to waste money, you can donate the price to me through paypal instead....I could skim out as much from in front of my computer . I just recently put it back on my 30g the other day just to see what it would pull out after 6+ months of running skimmerless and heavy feedings. It doesn't pull out anything worthwhile (skimmate should be dark and thick), which means one of two things: either a skimmer isn't needed (could very well be, nitrates have always been 0ppm), or the skimmer sucks...either choice is better than the Prizm as a solution.

 

[BrianH]

leafyseadragon,

I don't think there is much of a price difference between the regular Aqua C Remora and the Bak Pak. I think its only about $20.00. If you go with the remora, get the maxi jet pump as the rio's have a history of failure.

Brian

 

[leafyseadragon]

Brian,

While it is true that the Remora costs only about $20 more than the Bak Pak 2, it lacks the biological filtration capability of the Bak Pak 2's Bio-Bale. Please correct me if I'm wrong about this.

Since this will be my first marine tank, I would like to have the larger margin of error that having both a protein skimmer and a biological filter provides. So even if I were to spend the $20 more on the Remora, I would have to spend $30 or so on top of that for biological filtration (Emperor). So as much as I would like a Remora, it would really cost me an additional $50.

 

[stresco]

I have the BackPack in my wetdry sump. As long as the water level doesnt get lower than the Rio pump, the water level in the skimmer never changes. I have done 25% water changes in my tank and never turned off the skimmer, because the water lever never changed.

 

[kribbz]

leafy, as far as biological filtration goes, you can acheive this with the live rock and live sand in the tank. so with a good skimmer i don't think that a biological filter will really be necessary.

 

[BrianH]

Leafy,

Most reefers will advise against using any biological filtration except live rock & a DSB. Remember that using a mechanical filter with media(or a bio wheel) will increase the nitrate production in your tank. One of the reasons for using a skimmer is to reduce the nitratres, so IMHO your actually fighting against the skimmer by using a filter for biofiltration. I bet that most of the bak pak owners don't use the biofiltration feature on that skimmer.

Brian

 

[leafyseadragon]

Brian,

In the words of Roseanne Roseannadanna, it's always something!

I had pretty much decided on the Bak Pak 2, then you tell me that most people don't use the biolfiltration feature. Therefore, maybe I should consider the Bak Pak 2R (reef) instead? This has no Bio-Bale, but compared to the Bak Pak 2, it has an improved outlet to reduce bubbles.

A question: if I go with the Bak Pak 2R, can I add a Bio-Bale later? It's not clear from the picture whether I could do that or not.

 

[BrianH]

Leafy,

I don't own a bak pak so I don't know if you could add the bio bale. But since the 2R is different I would think that you can not.

Do you have FW experience? You seem to have the same issues I had when starting SW. I also could not believe that you didn't need a filter (in the FW sense). Many of my LFS's told me that I would need a filter(canister, HOT etc). But I decided I'd go with the experts on the boards advice and just use LR and a DSB. Well it's been a little over a year and what do you know, those online posters knew what they were talking about. I have never had an issue with biofiltration. The LR and DSB takes care of it all. Just make sure you have enough LR (1 - 1.5 lbs per gallon) and the 10 times per gallon water movement and you'll be set.

Brian

 

[HoopsGuru]

What helped me rationalize it all was just understanding what the actual purpose of biomedia is....to provide surface area for bacteria to populate. When you think that most of us use gravel in our fw tanks, the gravel pieces are really poor for this when compared to each grain of sand. Hence, we add porous material and wheels to our filters to compensate for this lack of surface area. If we used this material as our substrate (or a substrate with more surface area..hint, hint) then filters would not be necessary for bio-filtration on fw either. I now use sand in my freshwater tanks, and have no problem with bioload!

 

[leafyseadragon]

Brian,

You caught me. I have had FW tanks on and off since I was a kid, and have killed my share of fish in the past. I am trying to avoid mistakes borne out of ignorance.

LR is expensive. I was planning to use 20 pounds of live rock for a 37 gallon tank, and let the biological filtration of the Bak-Pak make up the difference. Bad idea?