Baserock Question

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Goldie

Aquarium Advice Apprentice
Joined
Aug 10, 2003
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25
Location
Tennessee
I was wondering what would be a good mixture of base rock and LR as far as pounds of each would be good for a 55gal tank (L48"xW13"xH23").
Also 3 to 4 inches of sand I think would be good. How much playsand (southdown) to live sand ratio would I need? I know I keep asking alot of questions but I am very excited about starting this tank and I want to do it right. Thanks...
 
Both choices are up to you. If I'm not mistaken, even a handful of LS is enough to start a health filtration system. I used about a 50/50 mix. And as far as the LR, it really depends on your budget. I believe you would want about 100 lbs of rock total. It can be all live or only 10lbs live and the other 90 base rock. I know that if you choose a good, porous, baserock, it will eventually become live with the organism from your LR. Again, here, I did a 50/50 blend.

Mind you, I am not an expert, but I have learned a lot from reading this forum.

Thank You Alumni :D

Howard
 
Usually the rule of thumb is about 1 to 1.5 Lbs of LR per gallon of water. That equates to about 55 - 83 Lbs of rock. You can get a good calcium based base rock to start with and then seed it with the LR. LR is expensive, so use your judgement and aquascaping needs to determine how much you need. A guide would be about a 80/20 ratio of base to live. As far as how much sand you would need, there is a very neat little calculator for that in this forum (see the banner line above). This will calculate how much sand you need based on how thick you want the bed. Also remember that if you want to create a LS base (recommended), you will need to seed it with LS. You would not need much. It is also recommended that you place the LR on PVC supports equal to the depth of the sand bed. This is to avoid creating dead pockets of nitrate and gas. It is also recommended that you get a "critter pack" of detrivores (snails, crabs etc.) to handle stirring up the sand bed and cleaning the base. Because the base is sand, it will be difficult to vacuum th stuff up without pulling out some of the sand with it. There are some good books that can give you some great direction in terms of setting up your tank. Make sure that you do lots of reading and research before you start. Good luck :mrgreen:
 
So you could basically.. Buy a Few pounds of LR seed it with Base Rock and eventully it would become LR as well.

As for the Sand.. and if the LFS is cool you could get like a few Cups of LS from them . Seed it with your South down sand and be good to go ?
 
roblikesfish said:
As for the Sand.. and if the LFS is cool you could get like a few Cups of LS from them . Seed it with your South down sand and be good to go ?
Great idea but just as a cautionary note, make sure any sand aquired from the LFS it comes from a coral only tank to prevent possible copper contamination or other meds that will most likely be in tanks containing fish. Same goes for any "friends" that may donate.

Cheers
Steve
 
Question.

Why would it really matter if it came from a reef tank ?

If one does not plan to Keep a Reef Tank and merely a Fish with live Rock tank would it matter?

I am sure there are other precautions that must be taken before you Seed well established sand from one tank with your own .

Please advise ?
 
The caution is there because, unless you really know and trust your LFS, you never know what meds they may have had in the tank. Since the calcium based sand tends to absorb these meds, there is a small risk that you may be introducing some undesirable elements to your tank. I understand that you want to keep a FO tank. What if you change your mind later? Also some of the invertebrates that may inhabit the LR you use would not be able to handle these trace elements well. It is a small but very appropriate bit of advice. Good luck 8)
 
Sam said:
It is also recommended that you place the LR on PVC supports equal to the depth of the sand bed. This is to avoid creating dead pockets of nitrate and gas.

Now for my next question. Does anyone have a diagram or picture of a support that would give me an idea of how to build one just for visual reference please. Thanks...
 
One thing to note is that altho a cup of live sand from another tank will get you started, it takes several months to a year to establish a fully functional DSB. It does not help the load right from the start.

I personally, think this is why people get tank crashes just a few months out. They think they have a top notch DSB and LR filtration system and overstock the tank....but this is just a personal theory of mine
 
Why would it really matter if it came from a reef tank ?

If one does not plan to Keep a Reef Tank and merely a Fish with live Rock tank would it matter?

Fish tanks, in LFS usually use copper based meds to keep the ICH population down or to eraticate it... This in turn will kill any or all beneficial bacteria, worms, pods, etc, that make LS what it is.. Secondly, adding this to a fish only tank, would not do any harm except for maybe leaching the copper out into the water, but, it would not be technically LS if all of the inhabitants are dead. Defeats the purpose.

If gotten out of a Reef Tank, chances are they are not using copper to treat, and the life would be abundant. This would be beneficial LS to add even to a fish only tank.

The choice is ultimately yours whether or not to buy LS from the LFS. After a few months, brand new sand will be live anyway... LS added speeds up the process..
 
Sorry I do not have any pictures to send. But really it is fairly simple. You can get the PVC from HD or any other HW store. Just look for a short section of 2" gray Sch. 80 PVC. This is very common and used by electricians running mains and feeder circuits. If you are going to use a 4" base, just use a hacksaw and cut 4" lengths of the PVC. Based on your aquascaping, use enough legs to fully and stably support your rocks. Use a marine epoxy to glue these onto the base rock when you are happy with your dry run setups (sort of like setting up a model :) Now, as far as setting up the LR, this is where your personal taste comes into play, you may want a reef wall setup or an atoll set up with a lagoon in the middle. Get some reference books and you should see some ideas there, or look at some of the set ups from the members here for ideas too. Build the structure so that it is sound but not compact, leave lots of little holes and spaces for water circulation. Again, use marine epoxy to cement together once you are satisfied. Remember do not place it all the way against the back glass, leave room for circulation. The idea here is to avoid any "dead" areas in the tank. Once you have built the Base Rock, build it in mind of placing the additional LR on top. The beauty of using the Base Rock is that you can work dry and even outside the tank using a template of your tank shape, before you ever put it into the tank :) Once the design is complete then you will need to add the sand base (nothing live yet until you have conditioned SW). Then its adding the water, bringing it to temp and adjusting the salinity. Note that you should not fill the tank all the way to the top as you will have displacement of water when you add the LR. Final step is to add the LR and if you feel comfortable with the stability, leaving it to sit on the Base Rock, or whip out that old marine epoxy which will work underwater. Maker sure you are keeping the LR in the water to prevent any die-offs (though unlikely in a short time). Again, if you want a good reference book see the recommended list in this forum. Hope this all makes sense and helps. 8)
 
I like your theory. Rushing isn't a good thing. However, I have to ask: why couldn't you add LR, dry rock and dry sand and let the LR organisms convert the sand to LS?
 
Because the LS contains a host of aerobic and anaerobic bacteria that works on converting the nitrate. This is different than the LR which is populated mainly with many various forms of photosynthetic algae. So just like you cannot have LS populating the base rock, it goes the other way too. Hope that answers your question!! 8)
 
IMO, Sam is mostly right but I want to make a couple points.

The bacteria (in terms of that needed for the nitrogen cycle) can come from anywhere. The bacteria can go from LR to LS and from LS to LR without trouble.

The types of critters in LR are certianly different to some extent, but there will be some critters that live in both LR and LS.

that being said, you will have the most success by having as diverse a system as possible. Getting LR AND LS gives you two different sources of critters to establish your system. Getting a few pounds of each from a couple different stores, if possible, is a great step towards diversity.

That is why, IMO, it is important to seed your system with both LR and LS (and preferably from multiple sources).
 
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