Bio in a bottle??? Feedback please

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MMM_Sushi

Aquarium Advice Newbie
Joined
Aug 21, 2011
Messages
5
Location
Chicago, IL
So I caught this link in another forum (possibly Carey's Bio Cube build) and it got me curious. Id like to know if folks have tried it and if in fact it has worked.

Here's the thing with this stuff that I dont get. With live rock on the market and live sand... It seems that cycle times could be extremely short anyways. How much time is a product like this actually saving? I guess Id like to hear from those that have tried THIS PRODUCT and hear the good and the bad.

Please watch the link ..... dont tell us about the looong ago attempts at bio in a bottle that didnt work, because that issue is allegedly addressed here. The reason I became curious about this type of thing is the tv show tanked. If you havent seen it they set up brand new tanks that are huge huge money setups and the livestock goes in within hours of completion. Made me wonder if its possible. Your feedback please.

Bacteria in a Bottle: Snake Oil or Worth Trusting? - YouTube!
 
It is very possible. I always use bacteria to cycle my tank. I never do the shrimp thing or ammonia thing...you just need bacteria and something for it to use to grow and reproduce. Bacteria can and do multiply exponentially. I have never had any problems with livestock losses.
 
I just setup my newest tank on Sunday. i added 20 lbs of rock from someones established tank and about 5 lbsof the rock from my pico tank. Since there was a bottle of "bacteria" in the actual tank kit I used it.

I had an ammonia spike of .5 for one day. never saw any trites and the trates are at 5. Tjose amounts are from the live rocks die off. If this bacteria had worked the cycle woudl have been longer and I would have seen trites at least something.

I also have setup several other tanks using the exact same method but NOT using bottled "bacteria". Same result everytime. Ammonia spike, no trites then trates all within a few days. I've also cycled with pure ammonia on my first tank. used live rock from someones tank and dosed ammonia to 4ppm. No bacteria again. Ccycled this time with nitrites showing. Cycle was done in a week.

I didn;t believe the bacteria in a bottle thing before and now after just using it I definitely don't. How can any nacteria stay in a bottle and alive for months? Suspended animation? This is all my opinion, but I feel I have a strong case as I've used it and not used it.

My vote is to spend that money on asomething cool for your tank instead, liek a fish or a coral. Or on any number of things you know youre gonna need with a sw tank. LOL
 
Carey,

You are right...it is like suspended animation...it is called endospores or exospores. It allows bacteria to survive when conditions are not favorable. Add nutrients and presto bacteria start to grow and reproduce.

Kurt
 
what i have worries with on these products is that their lifespan would be shorter than a couple of months not 2 years like it says on the bottles. I just cant imagine it. Bacteria only grow and survive if they have the food to survive. They need sugar, water and ammonia. If there is a large enough colony of bacteria in there, how do they survive so long in the bottle without new food sources, if they can cycle a tank in a few days?
 
As a biology major all I have to say is this. How is bacteria supposed to stay alive in a sealed bottle at room temperature for possibly months at a time? It doesn't. It needs to be refrigerated. Also how is a beneficial bacteria in a bottle gonna work for fresh and marine apps? It's two totally different applications? So it's almost like selling a cichlid to someone stating it's a good fish for a fresh or marine setup. Catch my drift? It's bottled bullsh*t in my opinion.
 
MikeyD said:
As a biology major all I have to say is this. How is bacteria supposed to stay alive in a sealed bottle at room temperature for possibly months at a time? It doesn't. It needs to be refrigerated. Also how is a beneficial bacteria in a bottle gonna work for fresh and marine apps? It's two totally different applications? So it's almost like selling a cichlid to someone stating it's a good fish for a fresh or marine setup. Catch my drift? It's bottled bullsh*t in my opinion.

Yea I know right?!! I'm a biomedical engineer and this stuff makes no sense...
I kind of want to read the research paper but I feel like it's a bs paper like the most that are published by private companies...
 
As a biology major, all I have to say is plate some out on a Petrie dish and you will see the results. I have done this and it does produce tons of bacteria.
 
Kmurraylhs said:
As a biology major, all I have to say is plate some out on a Petrie dish and you will see the results. I have done this and it does produce tons of bacteria.

There's ways for airborne bacteria to get in a petri dish...so unless you can 100% say fer sure it was the type of bacteria needed for saltwater systems...which I don't think you can.
 
nohika said:
There's ways for airborne bacteria to get in a petri dish...so unless you can 100% say fer sure it was the type of bacteria needed for saltwater systems...which I don't think you can.

+1

I want a scientific proof this stuff will survive for longer than 2 weeks!
 
Using aseptic techniques and an inoculating loop it is very obvious that the bacteria grown on the Petrie dish is from the bottle rather than air contamination. You could actually use the loop to make a letter and you would see a bacteria letter in a few days. I really don't understand why you guys have a hard time accepting this. Bacteria have been around for millions of years and are very good at adapting to different environments. They have found bacteria in thermal vents in the ocean that would melt your face off. Look at the super bacteria that developed resistance to antibiotics. A few months on a shelf in a bottle is a cakewalk.
 
Trust me, I've taken micro and used all those fancy techniques. There is still a chance of air contamination. And despite the bottle saying it containing the right bacteria, you can't 100% guarantee that the bacteria will work as promised. Would require a whole different experiment. No IRB, thankfully.
 
It is very easy to isolate a bacteria strain in the lab and then grow it...the science is very clear in this...people do it everyday.
 
Like I said in an earlier post...that is all I use to cycle my tank. Add bacteria and add livestock.
 
Kmurraylhs said:
Using aseptic techniques and an inoculating loop it is very obvious that the bacteria grown on the Petrie dish is from the bottle rather than air contamination. You could actually use the loop to make a letter and you would see a bacteria letter in a few days. I really don't understand why you guys have a hard time accepting this. Bacteria have been around for millions of years and are very good at adapting to different environments. They have found bacteria in thermal vents in the ocean that would melt your face off. Look at the super bacteria that developed resistance to antibiotics. A few months on a shelf in a bottle is a cakewalk.

That's great every bacteria colony is different. Some can die if the temperature just changes by one degree, I've first hand experience on this, if I had the time and money I would do the experiment, I don't so I can't, I hope someone can provide some scientific proof soon on this subject and show us some statistics... Until then we can come up with ideas for why and why not (including me lol) and .. Well to no end to say the least.
 
well I had crazy work hours past few days so I got back to this today. And I see we are split.

Carey has tried it and has seen no difference in cycle times, although she always seems to use live rock in either case. So is adding a substantial amount of live rock OR the bio in the bottle the same thing?

The other person kmurraylhs says they have used it with success. Was this on virgin setups with "dead" rock?

Now this next statement I'm going to make, I need you guys to cut me some slack on, its based on life experiences and I'm certainly no biologist. So explain it to me if you can..... I enjoy the outdoors year round, and I have seen many many animals go "dormant" in adverse conditions only to come out stronger than ever when the time is right. Can bacteria do this....could that be how they get the shelf life they claim?

Id like professional opinions if we have them out there, I agree if I read the corporate bulletin on this it will favor the product. I'm looking for independent feedback.
 
The bio in a bottle work. I help a friend do tank maintence at a hospital and we put in dry rock and sand with dr tims and then go in fish. I have also used biosphere as well. They work. I prove it all the time. So until you use it, you really have no arguement.
 
MMM_Sushi said:
well I had crazy work hours past few days so I got back to this today. And I see we are split.

Carey has tried it and has seen no difference in cycle times, although she always seems to use live rock in either case. So is adding a substantial amount of live rock OR the bio in the bottle the same thing?

The other person kmurraylhs says they have used it with success. Was this on virgin setups with "dead" rock?

Now this next statement I'm going to make, I need you guys to cut me some slack on, its based on life experiences and I'm certainly no biologist. So explain it to me if you can..... I enjoy the outdoors year round, and I have seen many many animals go "dormant" in adverse conditions only to come out stronger than ever when the time is right. Can bacteria do this....could that be how they get the shelf life they claim?

Id like professional opinions if we have them out there, I agree if I read the corporate bulletin on this it will favor the product. I'm looking for independent feedback.

In a way you are correct, they can mutate very quick and use this to adjust to conditions they did not evolve for previously, BUT to sustain a colony a lot of food is required for it. I don't say it's not possible to create a loop but if they found a loop (cycle essentially) to use in their bottles than would like to know how they did it.
...waiting...
 
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