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Old 04-14-2014, 07:07 PM   #21
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I'm not really looking to stock my tank but give it the best start I can.

Looking to do a reef tank. Easy stuff. Mushroom, clam or two , the easy corals. Lol.
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Old 04-14-2014, 07:07 PM   #22
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I'd like to have a tank with a little bit of everything. So what your saying is I should just wait. Will the ammonia spike is my question.
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Old 04-14-2014, 07:14 PM   #23
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I'm not really looking to stock my tank but give it the best start I can.

Looking to do a reef tank. Easy stuff. Mushroom, clam or two , the easy corals. Lol.
Mike since you ordered you liverock, it is considered uncured? That means you need to go through the process of curing that rock. It needs to be cleaned before you add it to your tank, to remove as much of the dead/dying organic material as possible, then you add it and wait for ammonia levels to drop, then nitrite levels to drop and finally nitrate levels to show up. Since your liverock (provided it isn't dry) already has bacteria present on it, adding additional bacteria typically isn't going to help.

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I'd like to have a tank with a little bit of everything. So what your saying is I should just wait. Will the ammonia spike is my question.
Bird33, with 40 pounds of LR in a 75gal tank, you don't have enough LR to maintain filtration without an outside filtration source. Therefore you will either need to add more liverock or allow bacteria time to populate your additional filtration surfaces. With existing LR it is always hard to say if an ammonia spike will occur or not; some people see one and others never see one.

This article is well worth the read for both of you; Soft Cycling the Saltwater Aquarium
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Old 04-14-2014, 07:21 PM   #24
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If you use live rock and live sand your cycle wont be big. Just a mini cycle. Since the bb is already established in the rock and sand. Like doing a big water change

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Old 04-14-2014, 07:24 PM   #25
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I've got a 30 gallon sump and reef octopus skimmer .
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Old 04-14-2014, 07:26 PM   #26
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I've got a 30 gallon sump and reef octopus skimmer .
The skimmer is pretty much irrelevant in regards to cycling, although it will help with removing undissolved organics from the water column. What filtration methods do you have going in the sump? Additional LR, LS, mud, mechanical (sponges, filter pads, etc), macroalgaes? If it is just additional water space, it also provides no benefit in regard to the cycle.
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Old 04-14-2014, 07:32 PM   #27
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Here ya go. Click image for larger version

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Old 04-14-2014, 07:41 PM   #28
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If you are using uncured liverock, the rock itself provides a direct ammonia source as organic decomposition occurs as a result of die-off of the organisms on the uncured rock. If you are using the proper amount of cured liverock directly transferred to your tank, bacteria populations are already present and therefore there is absolutely no need to hard cycle to some arbitrary number unless your goal is to add the entire stock of your aquarium immediately upon completing the cycle.

Lets Talk about Mythconceptions Regarding Nitrogen and the Cycling Process

One of the things that I commonly run across on this and other forums, is the notion that if I hard cycle my tank to that arbitrary number (maybe somewhat tied to high end stocking numbers, but arbitrary non-the-less), it is somehow "magically" prepared forever thereafter to accept any and all fish that I wish to place in the system. In reality, bacteria populations in any aquarium are in a constant state of dynamic flux, adding to or shifting the bioload causes an very quick fluctuation in that bacteria population (with mature populations, that fluctuation can occur in as little as 12 hours), resulting in increasing populations or die-off of your bacteria population.

The only benefit one can gain from hard cycling an aquarium to that arbitrary number is the immediate opportunity to stock the fish levels. Wait just 24 hours without maintaining those ammonia levels in your tank, and that opportunity is gone. Hence why people who have been engaged in this hobby for much longer periods of time understand that the old tried and true method of slowly adding a few fish at a time to a tank with an established bacteria population is generally a much safer and surer way of doing things.
I didn't say that the ammonia had to come from a specific item. I said that the bottom of a line was there had to be an ammonia source, meaning that it could be any object that creates ammonia. Whether it is the organisms on the uncared rock it self, a table shrimp it doesn't matter. If there's ammonia, then it works.


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You also implied adding 20 damsels. Well, no one would ever do that. We all know that tanks most be stocked slowly or it can create havoc within the parameters. If you added the damsels one at a time it would slowly increase being ok, so I don't see how that example helps.
Also, I in fact did state that slowly stocking things was the better way to go, earlier in the thread. That's the way I do things, I'm pretty sure it is the generally accepted way to stock a tank. It has been made clear to almost every reefer, fish keeper, and so on and so forth that if you are to stock a tank all at one time, your parameters will fluctuate intensely creating havoc across the tank. This is also the reason why "Tanked" has such a debate across fish keepers. Adding all the fish at once can cause serious damage, especially when using a bacteria in a bottle product such as "Colony" by them.

Yes, the old fashioned way is tried and true, however I see no reason to keep the old fashioned way if a new method, that is equally as good, if not better has been introduced. This method has been working for what 5 years now? I believe that's the first time I ever heard of it, at the least. It's a new way, a new age, and it happens ever so often. Debates over these methods happen all the time. It was the same when LEDS were introduced to the market, the old reefers wouldn't accept the change, or didn't believe In them. However after time passed on more and more reef keepers noticed that LEDS do work, and they are the new generation of lighting. I believe that this concept applies to every change, in any thing really.

Now, when using all live rock and looking at cycling a tank. I personally add ammonia to make sure that my BB populations are stable and present and then start to stock. This introduction of ammonia should go away within the 24 hours for when it was set. I proceed with a water change and then move onto adding the first stock. Normally something small, and move on and on over the course of months until the tank is complete. I have found basically on most forums that people are using hard cycles, but still stocking the old-fashioned way. Now, if a person is to use base rock on their new tank, I'd always recommend a hard cycle, since there is no Bacteria populations to damage with the ammonia.
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Old 04-14-2014, 07:43 PM   #29
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So the sump is currently not being run? Well, that will create many options for you to be able to provide nutrient export through. What are your plans for the sump?
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Old 04-14-2014, 07:52 PM   #30
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Now, when using all live rock and looking at cycling a tank. I personally add ammonia to make sure that my BB populations are stable and present and then start to stock. This introduction of ammonia should go away within the 24 hours for when it was set. I proceed with a water change and then move onto adding the first stock. Normally something small, and move on and on over the course of months until the tank is complete. I have found basically on most forums that people are using hard cycles, but still stocking the old-fashioned way. Now, if a person is to use base rock on their new tank, I'd always recommend a hard cycle, since there is no Bacteria populations to damage with the ammonia.
Fair enough, however once again though I'm confused as to why you would hard cycle and then "start" stocking? If you are slowly adding stock after hard cycling your tank, then you are simply using the old method after the "new" method, which BTW has been around for far longer than 5 years. It is hardly "new", just mainly misunderstood because it gets parroted by new members as being the new/best way to do things, without them truly understanding the process of what they are doing. While you may not have stated that ammonia had to come from a specific source, your statement that it "needs to be added" regardless of the use of cured or uncured rock implies that you are recommending adding an additional source of ammonia beyond that already found in the system.
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