Cured live rock & the cycle

[sdergar]

Thanks all. It kind of makes sense about leaving it in until cycle is done to me as well.

Steve

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

Only issue with leaving it in after you get, say 1.0ppm ammonia, is that you may end up with too much ammonia. When I cycled my QT for the very first time, I used a jumbo shrimp in a 10g - which was way too much to start with. And then I left it in. Ammonia got up to 8ppm, and the cycle pretty much stalled. In my opinion, I just plain had too much ammonia.

I think it's a mute point though - if you have cured rock, you won't see much, if any ammonia, even if you leave it in. Just keep an eye on the nitrates. If you see them starting to go up, and you're not seeing any ammonia, it's safe to say you're cycled.

 

[mr_X]

the bacteria colony rises to meet the needs of the bio load. to start the cycle, all you need is an ammonia source. if you left an average cocktail shrimp in a tank it would take quite a long time to decompose. you certainly would not be ready to add fish in a month. you would still have ammonia present a month later.

 

[Greenmaster]

.... No the ammonia would be gone within 2 weeks (from my experience)

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

When I cycled a 225 FW from scratch using Ace Hardware Ammonia, I kept the ammonia between 1-3ppm and it completely cycled in less than 2 weeks. Just don't go over 4-5 ppm or the cycle stalls and keep the lights completely off.

 

[kingman8610]

When you take LR out of the water, you will start the death cycle right away. There are always things on LR that will die with exposure to air, especially if they were transported out of the water, even wrapped in wet newspaper. Just count on a cycle, it's your best assumption.

What kind of things Die right away? now I wish I would have had my LFS guy give me my LR in something with water

 

[kingman8610]

good advice. besides, LFS "cured" rock, is most likely rock that's been sitting in the live rock bin at the lfs for an extended period of time. the same bin they put the rock that just arrived in. the LFS's near here don't even heat, or change the water in the live rock bins.
i'm betting they have no idea how much that rock you have there has been sitting in that tank.
i would not trust it to be cured.

Exactly HOW is LR cured... and what does "cured" even mean??

 

[kingman8610]

I would put the shrimp in and wait till all levels are zero and not remove the shrimp till the day before I was going to add livestock, the reason I say day before is that when you take the shrimp out it will often be fairly decomposed, it will "melt" as you are taking in out QUOTE]


Haha I know exactlt what you mean, I feed my Hermits 1 jumbo shrimp a day (the reason is it varies on how much they eat) and then take it out around 12-13 hours after I put it in, and yeah, when taking it out its already gooey ad melty-like lol Then I let the other critters eat the broken off particles. Once a week I clean it all out... which helps control ammonia lvls and such right?

 

[maxst2]

Exactly HOW is LR cured... and what does "cured" even mean??

Means that its got bacteria and such on it already to aid cycle. Basically if you took some filter elements/gravel/stone/etc. from an already established tank and put it in yours to jump start the cycle.

Think when i get my tank started I'll have 20% live rock / 80% base rock for my 55 gallon. Pretty much 10 pounds of live rock and 50 pounds base...roughly.

Over time the base rock will become live.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

What kind of things Die right away? now I wish I would have had my LFS guy give me my LR in something with water

Sponges will die with any exposure to air, many smaller organisms would probably survive for the most part, but there will still be a death cycle. If the rock was truly live, and not just base rock that was 'cured' this would be the case. So if you bought LR that was encrusted with coralline and was in a tank with true "life", the death cycle will probably be more prominent. If it was just cured base rock, then it would really probably only harbor the beneficial bacteria, and as long as the rock was kept for the most part wet, it would probably be a pretty minimal cycle.

 

[kingman8610]

Means that its got bacteria and such on it already to aid cycle. Basically if you took some filter elements/gravel/stone/etc. from an already established tank and put it in yours to jump start the cycle.

Think when i get my tank started I'll have 20% live rock / 80% base rock for my 55 gallon. Pretty much 10 pounds of live rock and 50 pounds base...roughly.

Over time the base rock will become live.

Ah ok gotcha, it makes sense now

 

[kingman8610]

Sponges will die with any exposure to air, many smaller organisms would probably survive for the most part, but there will still be a death cycle. If the rock was truly live, and not just base rock that was 'cured' this would be the case. So if you bought LR that was encrusted with coralline and was in a tank with true "life", the death cycle will probably be more prominent. If it was just cured base rock, then it would really probably only harbor the beneficial bacteria, and as long as the rock was kept for the most part wet, it would probably be a pretty minimal cycle.

What is coralline?

It was in a tank with true life and I do believe it was living not just cured base rock, How would I know if it had sponges to begin with?

 

[mr_X]

.... No the ammonia would be gone within 2 weeks (from my experience)

so, if i'm reading you correctly, you put a normal sized cocktail shrimp in a tank and it completely disappeared, and so did the ammonia created, in 2 weeks?
i have a hard time believing that.
i'll tell you what, i'll experiment. i'm going food shopping tomorrow anyway, so i'll purchase a single raw shrimp and bring it home and drop it in a bucket of water with a power head and a heater, and let it sit. i'll post my findings.

 

[kingman8610]

so, if i'm reading you correctly, you put a normal sized cocktail shrimp in a tank and it completely disappeared, and so did the ammonia created, in 2 weeks?
i have a hard time believing that.
i'll tell you what, i'll experiment. i'm going food shopping tomorrow anyway, so i'll purchase a single raw shrimp and bring it home and drop it in a bucket of water with a power head and a heater, and let it sit. i'll post my findings.

Can't wait to hear back on it

 

[Greenmaster]

so, if i'm reading you correctly, you put a normal sized cocktail shrimp in a tank and it completely disappeared, and so did the ammonia created, in 2 weeks?
i have a hard time believing that.
i'll tell you what, i'll experiment. i'm going food shopping tomorrow anyway, so i'll purchase a single raw shrimp and bring it home and drop it in a bucket of water with a power head and a heater, and let it sit. i'll post my findings.

... I never said the shrimp would be gone.... I even talked about taking what was left out when you add fish... Let me clarify what I meant. The beneficial bacteria that turns ammonia to nitrite will convert it faster then the decomposing shrimp produces the ammonia after about 2 weeks.

The experiment you are doing will have high levels of ammonia and they will not come down fast enough as you will not have the surface area required for the bacteria to flourish... If you have some sand and some cured rock/old filter media to help with the bacteria introduction and surface area then your experiment will work... basically you need to be setting up a tank if you want to see how it will react when establishing a tank.

 

[mr_X]

hmm...i can't set up a tank right now. i would still like to do the experiment though. let me think on it.

 

[Greenmaster]

If you have the spare stuff laying around that you could set up a tank. Just set it up in a tote or a bucket... just make sure that the shrimp is comparable in size to the surface area you are providing for the bacteria, otherwise the cycle will stall.

 

[sdergar]

So I've put the raw shrimp in a few days ago and I've started to see the decay (white mossy stuff) all over it. I've also started to notice that some of my substrate and a couple of the dead rocks have started to get some brown growth on them. Is that part of the cycle? Thanks...

Steve

 

[sdergar]

Should the lights be off during this cycle? Any other equipment on or off? Thanks...

Steve

 

[mr_X]

lights off.