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Old 03-06-2007, 10:20 AM   #11
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I think I will get a different test kit. I've read that the shelf life on these things is about 6 months and mine is 5. Another question, how long should it be (on average) before I should see the ammonia and nitrites come down? I haven't tested for nitrates yet.
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Old 03-06-2007, 10:47 AM   #12
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Most test kits typically last a year or more but who knows how long they kit on a self before we buy them

Time for nh3/no2 to come down varies greatly on the source of nh3 but anywhere around the 3rd to 4th week is typical but can be sooner or later. Once you start getting no3 readings its close to wrapping up (another week or two).
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Old 03-06-2007, 11:01 AM   #13
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The thing about ammonia is that it is extremely toxic at levels even below 1ppm. Water changes at this point will take you from extremely toxic to slightly less, but still extremely toxic. I've never heard of excess ammonia inhibiting a cycle either.
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Old 03-06-2007, 12:14 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rubikcube
I've never heard of excess ammonia inhibiting a cycle either.
It's stated on just about every article I've ever read on "curring lr" including the one on this site.

"The reason I do the water changes is; the ammonia and nitrite levels in the curing vessel will rise high enough to kill, not only the organisms alive on the rock, the nitrifying bacteria that mineralize the ammonia and nitrite. The water changes keep the ammonia levels from going high enough to be toxic to the nitrifying bacteria, with the added benefit of saving some of the life on the rock."

I agree that the point of LR is to house the "live bacteria" but often it comes with "bonus" life and less nh3 versus more nh3 is always less stressful.

If pwc reduced nh3 below 3 ppm then I can understand the prolonged cycle time but if off the chart then lowering the nh3 slightly should not affect total cycle time IMO.
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Old 03-06-2007, 01:44 PM   #15
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rubikcube
I've never heard of excess ammonia inhibiting a cycle either.
It's stated on just about every article I've ever read on "curring lr" including the one on this site.

"The reason I do the water changes is; the ammonia and nitrite levels in the curing vessel will rise high enough to kill, not only the organisms alive on the rock, the nitrifying bacteria that mineralize the ammonia and nitrite. The water changes keep the ammonia levels from going high enough to be toxic to the nitrifying bacteria, with the added benefit of saving some of the life on the rock."

I agree that the point of LR is to house the "live bacteria" but often it comes with "bonus" life and less nh3 versus more nh3 is always less stressful.

If pwc reduced nh3 below 3 ppm then I can understand the prolonged cycle time but if off the chart then lowering the nh3 slightly should not affect total cycle time IMO.
That's why I love this site--you learn something new every day. I've been reefing for almost two years and never knew this!
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Old 03-06-2007, 03:04 PM   #16
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There isn't any evidence(beyond hobbyist experience) or reason to think that ammonia would be toxic to nitrosomonas.
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Old 03-06-2007, 03:17 PM   #17
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I'll take "hobbyist experience" over your I "cycled" my 29 gal with a bag of purigen from seachem approach.

For someone how didn't "experience" any levels of nh3 during your cycle you sure are quick to dismiss any harmful effects of nh3 to bacteria and life on live rock.

But I forgot you're the PH guru so just let the nh3 get as high as you want with no ill affects.
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Old 03-06-2007, 03:50 PM   #18
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I'll take "hobbyist experience" over your I "cycled" my 29 gal with a bag of purigen from seachem approach.
Ahh, the dig up old posts approach to proving someone wrong. Still as fallacious as ever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tecwzrd
For someone how didn't "experience" any levels of nh3 during your cycle you sure are quick to dismiss any harmful effects of nh3 to bacteria and life on live rock.
That's your response to me asking for non-anecdotal evidence? Forgive me for remaining skeptical.

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But I forgot you're the PH guru so just let the nh3 get as high as you want with no ill affects.
I don't claim to be a guru of anything. However, I still don't see how I was wrong in that thread. Oh wait, I forgot that personal attacks fix that problem.
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Old 03-06-2007, 03:53 PM   #19
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Ok, let's keep it civil. We all have different experiences/knowledge. This thread can quickly turn sour which will help no one.
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Old 03-06-2007, 04:24 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rubikcube
Oh wait, I forgot that personal attacks fix that problem.
Sorry for being personal but I do find it relevant that you never experienced a tank cycle yourself.

The PH post has numerous articles that refute your assumptions even if they aren't "scientific publications" so arguing that point is fruitless as well.

As for high nh3 concentrations I don't have an exact publication link so I'm done debating and as I said before let your nh3 get as high as you want without any unpropitious results.
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