Curing LR in New Tank

[jwburleson97]

Hi, I'm new to this site and it has answered quite a few questions...thank you! I do have a specific question though. I have a 55 gal that I am I am cycling with 70 lbs of fiji live rock I bought from Fosters & Smith. It's been in the tank 4 days. My ammonia is off the chart (over 8 ppm) and so are the nitrates (over 5). I've read on your site not to do water changes cuz it will slow down the cycle but I'm afraid I'm killing the critters on the rock. Should I do a small change? Please help!! Thanks Jennifer

 

[Ziggy953]

Some will say no some will say yes. I did not change water in my system during the cycle. I just made sure that the water was topped off with Fresh RO/DI to keep my SG level. I'm certain that others will chime in with suggestions.

 

[tecwzrd]

IMO you should do pwc to reduce nh3/no2 which will kill off a lot of the life when it gets off the chart. Too high nh3/no2 does nothing to cultivate bacteria and can easily overwhelm the bacteria currently in the lr/tank.

Are you sure you are seeing 5 ppm for no3? Typically you don't get no3 readings after only 4 days.

I'd try a 30% pwc and recheck your readings after a couple of hours. If back within 3-5 ppm for nh3 then I'd leave it alone unless it goes off the chart again.

It could prolong your cycle time but paying $$$ for dead rock isn't worth it IMO.

 

[melosu58]

I agree that there is nothing saying you cant do a PWC but it will slow down your cycle. As Micah said It might be worth it.

 

[jwburleson97]

I was thinking the same thing. The worst thing that can happen if I do a PWC is a slower cycle, if I don't I have dead rock. I think I would feel better if I did the water change. The rock has been in 4 days but the LFS gave me bio balls to give the cycle a jumpstart. But I've already taken them out.

 

[melosu58]

Let me clear something up here. LR is rock that has nitrifying bacteria on it that causes the cycle to properly run its course. Any critters or live organisms are a bonus and help to filter and scavavge your tank. Your rock can have all the critters in it you want but if it does not have the beneficial bacteria on it it`s not live. Just clearing that up.

 

[rubikcube]

When I cycled my tank with LR, I didn't do a water change. I had pods, corals, worms, and all sorts of algae make it through the cycle.

 

[melosu58]

When I cycled my tank with LR, I didn't do a water change. I had pods, corals, worms, and all sorts of algae make it through the cycle.

Same thing in my tank also. Hiding in the rock they are very resilient.

 

[jwburleson97]

My only concern is that ammonia and nitrites were off the chart, literally. I've never seen them that high. The ammonia was over 8 and nitrites were over 5. Fosters and Smith say not to do a water change until after 1 week. I'm running the protein skimmer so that should help a little.

 

[Ziggy953]

If you are concerned about the ammonia, do a PWC to get them down some. It may but may not slow down your cycle. You may want to try testing your water again with a different test kit. Take some water to your LFS and have them test it for you just to make sure that your kits are accurate or you at least get the same or similar numbers.

 

[jwburleson97]

I think I will get a different test kit. I've read that the shelf life on these things is about 6 months and mine is 5. Another question, how long should it be (on average) before I should see the ammonia and nitrites come down? I haven't tested for nitrates yet.

 

[tecwzrd]

Most test kits typically last a year or more but who knows how long they kit on a self before we buy them

Time for nh3/no2 to come down varies greatly on the source of nh3 but anywhere around the 3rd to 4th week is typical but can be sooner or later. Once you start getting no3 readings its close to wrapping up (another week or two).

 

[rubikcube]

The thing about ammonia is that it is extremely toxic at levels even below 1ppm. Water changes at this point will take you from extremely toxic to slightly less, but still extremely toxic. I've never heard of excess ammonia inhibiting a cycle either.

 

[tecwzrd]

I've never heard of excess ammonia inhibiting a cycle either.

It's stated on just about every article I've ever read on "curring lr" including the one on this site.

"The reason I do the water changes is; the ammonia and nitrite levels in the curing vessel will rise high enough to kill, not only the organisms alive on the rock, the nitrifying bacteria that mineralize the ammonia and nitrite. The water changes keep the ammonia levels from going high enough to be toxic to the nitrifying bacteria, with the added benefit of saving some of the life on the rock."

I agree that the point of LR is to house the "live bacteria" but often it comes with "bonus" life and less nh3 versus more nh3 is always less stressful.

If pwc reduced nh3 below 3 ppm then I can understand the prolonged cycle time but if off the chart then lowering the nh3 slightly should not affect total cycle time IMO.

 

[Dr.Nate]

I've never heard of excess ammonia inhibiting a cycle either.

It's stated on just about every article I've ever read on "curring lr" including the one on this site.

"The reason I do the water changes is; the ammonia and nitrite levels in the curing vessel will rise high enough to kill, not only the organisms alive on the rock, the nitrifying bacteria that mineralize the ammonia and nitrite. The water changes keep the ammonia levels from going high enough to be toxic to the nitrifying bacteria, with the added benefit of saving some of the life on the rock."

I agree that the point of LR is to house the "live bacteria" but often it comes with "bonus" life and less nh3 versus more nh3 is always less stressful.

If pwc reduced nh3 below 3 ppm then I can understand the prolonged cycle time but if off the chart then lowering the nh3 slightly should not affect total cycle time IMO.

That's why I love this site--you learn something new every day. I've been reefing for almost two years and never knew this!

 

[rubikcube]

There isn't any evidence(beyond hobbyist experience) or reason to think that ammonia would be toxic to nitrosomonas.

 

[tecwzrd]

I'll take "hobbyist experience" over your I "cycled" my 29 gal with a bag of purigen from seachem approach.

For someone how didn't "experience" any levels of nh3 during your cycle you sure are quick to dismiss any harmful effects of nh3 to bacteria and life on live rock.

But I forgot you're the PH guru so just let the nh3 get as high as you want with no ill affects.

 

[rubikcube]

I'll take "hobbyist experience" over your I "cycled" my 29 gal with a bag of purigen from seachem approach.

Ahh, the dig up old posts approach to proving someone wrong. Still as fallacious as ever.

For someone how didn't "experience" any levels of nh3 during your cycle you sure are quick to dismiss any harmful effects of nh3 to bacteria and life on live rock.

That's your response to me asking for non-anecdotal evidence? Forgive me for remaining skeptical.

But I forgot you're the PH guru so just let the nh3 get as high as you want with no ill affects.

I don't claim to be a guru of anything. However, I still don't see how I was wrong in that thread. Oh wait, I forgot that personal attacks fix that problem.

 

[roka64]

Ok, let's keep it civil. We all have different experiences/knowledge. This thread can quickly turn sour which will help no one.

 

[tecwzrd]

Oh wait, I forgot that personal attacks fix that problem.

Sorry for being personal but I do find it relevant that you never experienced a tank cycle yourself.

The PH post has numerous articles that refute your assumptions even if they aren't "scientific publications" so arguing that point is fruitless as well.

As for high nh3 concentrations I don't have an exact publication link so I'm done debating and as I said before let your nh3 get as high as you want without any unpropitious results.