Cycle QT/hospital tank?

[Erok7620]

Okay, I've made the mistake of not putting new fish in a QT. Live and learn I guess. After seeing some spots on my fish recently I bought a 10g, filter, PH, heater, PVC fittings. Its all set up as I've read... no substrate or any live rock. I removed the carbon from the new filter cartridge and put in my main tank filter over night. Filled the QT with 1/2 RO 1/2 water from main tank. Added some stress zyme (mistake i think)Tested the water a few hours later and the ammonia was at 1. Ammo in my main is 0. Trites 0, trates 10, PH 8.4. Other QT tests: trites around .25, trates 5-10, PH at 8.8 I was under the impression I wouldnt have to cycle the QT.. I dont know why, I just read it in an article here or somewhere. I know most dont leave a QT setup and only set it up when needed. So what do I do? I dont want to wait a month to begin treatment on the fish. Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Innovator]

Depending on what you are treating for and if this animal is coming from the main display or a new acquisition, you will probably have to perform about 50% water changes/day to avoid a cycle. Most quarantines can consist of a 20g, heater, pvc, and a sponge filter or Aquaclear Mini (airstone depending on medication). Most medications would require water changes between treatments anyways. There is nothing wrong with keeping a cycled qt if you have the space.

 

[Erok7620]

what is the reason why there is no substrate or live rock used in a QT. Wouldnt that help filtration?

 

[Innovator]

Most medications will negatively influence and even destroy biological filtration. Live rock and various substrates also dilute many medication concentrations.

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

Putting the filter in your main tank overnight just wasn't long enough to get an effective biological filter. And since the bacteria isn't in the water, adding water from the tank didn't really do anything either. Adding stress zyme probably didn't help, but it didn't hurt either. So yes... you're going to see a cycle.

The only way you may not see a cycle is if you have a sponge filter or a HOB filter running on your main all the time, that can be switched over to the QT. Then, assuming your bioload in the QT doesn't exceed the bacteria levels in your seeded filter, you won't experience a cycle.

If you're treating with copper, live rock and sand will make it nearly impossible to keep the correct dosages of copper in suspension. The rock/sand will suck it out of the water.

 

[roka64]

Just a side hint. Some folks like to keep a sponge in their sump/fuge. This will help to host the beneficial bacteria that you can move to your QT. I agree, copper will leech into your substrate/LR/silicone seals/plastic and everything else it can, and will kill that same beneficial bacteria and/or inverts.

 

[litebrite]

Sometimes my fish have to stay in QT longer than I expected. I took a clear plastic water bottle, drilled holes in the upper top for overflow close to the lid, put a 75 gph power head at the bottom with some hard stones to keep it down and a sponge where the water flows in and filled it with a hand full of small bio balls.

Instant wet dry and filter for a 10 gallon tank. It's fully cycled so I can do just monthly water changes if I need to. 0 ammonia, 0 nitrate, and I change the water when nitrates get to about 15 ppm. But that takes about 2 months to reach that level.

When I'm done, I can empty the tank and take out my water bottle and just keep it filled so the bacteria stays wet. When I need it again, fill a tank, drop the water bottle in, plug it in and instant cycled tank ready to go provided the bacteria did not die off in the bottle.

I couldn't keep up with the daily water changes so this is second best for me.

 

[cmor1701d]

If I remember from your other posts you set up the QT for a hypo treatmetn for Ich. Bare bottem helps is that yo ucan vacuum out the cysts with your water changes. If you did not have a filter in the main for a week you will not have enough bacteria to avoid a cycle. Best if you are prepared to do 2x daily 20% water changes. Once in the morning and once in the evening. This will help keep the water parameters in check. It's also hard to maintain pH in hypo, so pwc's help there too.

 

[pat8you]

Don't mean to jack the thread but i have a quick question. People say to keep a small HOB in the sump to be ready for QT. So assuming i do that and put it in there and treat my fish for ick or something. When i'm ready to break down the QT again i can't exactly put that filter back in the main tank because it will carry over medications and possibly ick? how do you guys clean out the filter to put it back in the main?

 

[cmor1701d]

Ich, no. Meds, probably. If you are using it for a hyposalinity treatment the Ich parasite in all of its forms will be dead. I would dispose of the filter and use a new filter for the next time. The eqipment get's cleaned in a white vinegar bath overnight followed by fresh water rinsing, then dried and put away.

I only keep the biowheel in the sump of the main. The filter pads are new each time.
So it depens on the type of filter you are using and can you clean it of meds. Other than copper most meds will be cleaned out by gac (carbon).

 

[want2findnemo]

I'm reading this thread and don't mean to hijack it but i dont wanna start a new thread when its the exact same question Erok is asking...

Putting the filter in your main tank overnight just wasn't long enough to get an effective biological filter.

So when you set up a QT you have to cycle it as if it is a small DT?

Sometimes my fish have to stay in QT longer than I expected. I took a clear plastic water bottle, drilled holes in the upper top for overflow close to the lid, put a 75 gph power head at the bottom with some hard stones to keep it down and a sponge where the water flows in and filled it with a hand full of small bio balls.

Instant wet dry and filter for a 10 gallon tank. It's fully cycled so I can do just monthly water changes if I need to. 0 ammonia, 0 nitrate, and I change the water when nitrates get to about 15 ppm. But that takes about 2 months to reach that level.

When I'm done, I can empty the tank and take out my water bottle and just keep it filled so the bacteria stays wet. When I need it again, fill a tank, drop the water bottle in, plug it in and instant cycled tank ready to go provided the bacteria did not die off in the bottle.

I couldn't keep up with the daily water changes so this is second best for me.

So if someone is doing a QT and they can have it running 24/7, they should cycle it right?

Cuz im gonna buy a HOT powerfilter to a 10g like Erok7620, (i dont have my DT up yet but wanna set up a QT before i put anything in my DT)

If someone has to cycle, i know LR has the bacteria in it already but where does the bacteria on a powerfilter come from and how do i start the cycle? with a cocktail shrimp?


Thanks in advanced...

 

[melosu58]

An Ounce of Prevention is Worth a Pound of Cure: A Quarantine Tank for Everything by Steven Pro - Reefkeeping.com

 

[want2findnemo]

Thanks melosu, will do more reading on "inorganic aquarium cycling"

Planning to get this:

http://www.bigalsonline.ca/StoreCat...er_filter?&query=bio+wheel&queryType=0&offset=

it has a biowheel.

Just gotta figure out how to start the cycle.


Thanks agian

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

Just gotta figure out how to start the cycle.

Same way you cycle a display tank... preferably with a raw shrimp, but with a 10g, a good pinch of fish food should do also.

The other option is to put the biowheel setup on a cycled tank for a week or so. At that point, you should have a fair amount of bacteria on the biowheel. You might see a mini cycle when you switch it over to a QT and add a fish, but it will only be a day or so while the bacteria play catch up.

 

[want2findnemo]

So when I buy the power filter with the biowheel, it already has the bacteria that breaks ammonia down in it?

Cuz i dont have my DT cycled yet, im gonna do the fish food thing. Im just confused at where the bacteria comes from?

With a LR setup the LR has the bacteria...

 

[roka64]

When you buy the wheel it will not contain the beneficial bacteria. It will need to be cycled.
The bacteria comes from the decomposing organic material. You'll have an ammonia spike, then a nitrItes spike, with the ammonia declining and then a nitrAte spike, whith a decline in your nitrAtes. Once you have 0 ammonia/nitrIte readings and nitrAtes present, your tank is cycled.

 

[cmor1701d]

The biowheel is a wet/dry type filter. It will be home to nitrifying bacteria once there is a source of ammonia introduced into the tank. Initially , as Scott stated, you need to cycle the QT just as you would a DT. You can use a good pinch of fish food or a raw cocktail shrimp. I keep the biowheel from my QT filter in the sump of my DT so when I need my QT tank I have a ready source of bacteria and an almost instant cycle. I still do daily pwc's on the QT for the first few days to a week to insure that the biofilter has time to grow a large enough population to sustain the livestock in QT.

 

[want2findnemo]

Thanks so much guys. I should get it started right away then... since I have to wait a few weeks for the thing to cycle.

I still do daily pwc's on the QT for the first few days to a week to insure that the biofilter has time to grow a large enough population to sustain the livestock in QT.

How would I know if there is enough population of bacteria because my first fish I plan to put in my tank are a bunch of green chromis (like 6)

My QT is only 10g. Would I have to do different QT sessions? Or can I put them all in at once?

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

How would I know if there is enough population of bacteria because my first fish I plan to put in my tank are a bunch of green chromis (like 6)

My QT is only 10g. Would I have to do different QT sessions? Or can I put them all in at once?

When I was stocking my main tank, I quarantined 3 chromis in a CYCLED 10g tank, with a Penguin 100 biowheel, that had been up and running 4-5 months. I still got an ammonia spike (between 0.25-0.5ppm), but no detectable nitrites. I ended up doing daily 20-30% water changes. Even after putting a cup of sand from my main tank into a media bag, I still didn't get over the hump (no detectable ammonia) for two weeks.

By my experience, I would guess that 6 chromis in a 10g would be too much (assuming you quarantine a full 4 weeks) and you'd have to do daily water changes all during the quarantine period to keep your water parameters at least tolerable. I'd probably break them up into 2 batches of 3 fish each.

 

[want2findnemo]

Ok,

So i will cycle the QT until i get 0 ammonia 0 nitrites and some nitrates. I will do this by adding some flaked food or a uncooked cocktail shrimp.

After the cycle I will do 20-30% water changes daily for a week to ensure that the bacteria grow in the power filter.

then i will add 3 chromis and do tests daily and based on that, pwc 20-30%.

After 4 weeks i will do the whole thing agian to my other 3 chromis.

Right?