Cycling problems/questions

[mattmku]

I'm having some trouble cycling my tank. I have two fish (Damsels) and three pounds of live rock in a 20 gallon tank. They've been in there three days. My ammonia tested .2 mg/l yesterday and today it has dropped back to 0. I then tested nitrate and it tested at .1. What appears to me is that cycling is complete but it couldn't be. Any suggestions?

 

[scuba_steve]

welcome to aquarium advice
first if you can take back the fish that would be the nice thing to do most use raw shrimp to start the cycle ! its not good or fair for the fish to make them live in those conditions ! yes they are tuff fish but not a good thing !
the fish been in there 3 days how long has the tank been running with the rock?

 

[Atari]

What other filtration do you have? I don't think 3 lbs of rock will do much.

 

[steve-s]

As well as the good advice above, having nitrate present is not an indication the tank has completely cycled. Both ammonia and nitrite must be zero as well. You have gone through a quick NH3 spike but what does the NO2 read?

Cheers
Steve

 

[mattmku]

It's not really possible to take the fish back. I'm leaving for Europe tomorrow and a friend is taking care of the house. The store we bought them at is over an hour away. I'm also not sure the i really need to take them back. I was told that these fish are what are commonly used for cycling and would survive. The fish and rock were placed in the tank at the same time, three days ago. Amonia is almost 0 (a decrease from yesterday) and Nitrite (NO2) is measuring 0. Should ammonia be measurable at this point?

 

[Atari]

No offense intended, but what you were told was to make a sale and not to ensure the well-being of the fish. My usual analogy for how cycling with fish relates to humans is that of sitting in a car with the exhaust fumes pumped in through a cracked window. The nitrite has a similar effect on the fish as carbon monoxide has on us. It makes it next to impossible for the blood to carry oxygen.

I hope that explains why our views appear to be in conflict with your LFS.

 

[mattmku]

The fish store made a whopping $6 dollars on that sale. I'd probably have spent more on the decaying shrimp. I've read that you can use fish on almost every web site i've read. I didn't post this thread to get a lecture on animal cruelty, but to get some suggestions on the cycling process. Not that I'm not appreciative of the advice but at this point it is almost impossible for me to take the fish back. Anyone have a suggestion on monitoring the nitrogen cycle in my tank?

 

[Atari]

No lecture intended. I was merely explaining the reasoning behind scuba_steve's suggestion. Yes we can use fish to cycle, that doesn't mean we should.

Anyway, like I already asked above, what other filtration do you have? 3 lbs of LR will not be sufficient by itself.

 

[malkore]

I've done many a cycle with fish, in my freshwater tanks. However, I'm also more than willing to do ammo and nitrite tests every day for 4-6 weeks, and follow that test with a water change if needed (and for the first few weeks, its needed about every day, and then every other day for another couple weeks). That's the only way to humanely cycle with fish. Since I have planted freshwater tanks, the ammonia never builds up very high.
However in my salt tank, it's fishless cycle the whole way.
If you're going to Europe tomorrow, expect to come home to dead fish and a funky smelling tank. 3lbs of LR isn't enough of a bio filter, so unless you had an existing, cycled filter that you put on this tank, the livestock is probably doomed.

I'm not trying to chastise you...you're new...you don't know any better. I'm just being honest, and don't want you to expect to come back from abroad to a healthy tank with live fish.

Have fun on your trip! Don't stress on the fish. When you get home, we'll be here and more than willing to help you do everything the 'right' way.

 

[jr5018]

Ok there are many different ways to cycle the people in this forum are for the most part set in their ways on fishless cycling in my opinion we are beating a dead horse here, the guy has already done it his way the most we can do is help him out. Now, mattmku you need to post all readings nitrate nitrite and ammonia and this board will be able to help you i can almost guarantee that. They are a really helpful bunch, however they can get very passionate with their beliefs on keeping a marine tank. Hope this helps and have fun in europe, I always do.

 

[Atari]

jr5018, attempting to increase someones awareness is never a waste of time in my opinion, whether it's appreciated or not (although I'd be surprised if it wasn't appreciated since we're supposed to care about our pets). He is leaving/has left the country so how are we supposed to help anyway? At least this way if the damsels don't make it, there's a chance he will consider fishless cycling next time.

I hope the person left in charge manages to keep them alive though.

 

[jr5018]

Atari, The guy was obviously aware of our preferred cycling method here at AA it was getting to the point of redundancy. So it was a colossal waste of time IMO. We cannot help and i stand corrected for posting so late. Thankyou for being such a smart individual.

 

[Atari]

Thankyou for being such a smart individual.

It is absolutely unnecessary to resort to sarcasm. If you read back my initial response was to ask about filtration - to which I received no answer. I only chimed in on the fishless cycling to explain why scuba_steve suggested it, since it did not appear the poster believed the damsels would be in a harmful environment. It's hard to help someone who posts a day before leaving the country and doesn't answer your questions.

 

[scuba_steve]

why a stopped

 

[methuse]

You guys are funny

 

[methuse]

as in ha-ha, not strange.....not that there's anything wrong with that......doh...

 

[seacat]

This is the guy currently taking care of the tank and it has finished its cycle and there seems to be some kind of a alge growing on the gravel at this time....is this normal or should i be worried. Thanks for all the help.

 

[steve-s]

You are a good friend indeed. To take care of a friends tank is one thing but to seek the advice of others is great Welcome to the forum

You say the tank has finished it's cycle? If so can you post the numbers? NH3, NO2 and NO3?

If all's well, I would make sure you do a large water change to bring down any remaining nitrates and keep things up to par. How are the remaining fish?

As far as the algae is concerned, this is quite normal for a new tank. Depending on the water used, tap or RO, it should subside as the tank ages a bit. Nothing to be concerned about as yet. Was any money left behind for the possible addition of a few snails(?) providing the cycle is done?

Cheers
Steve

 

[seacat]

Ya im proud to be takin care of the tank...haha i guess. Its pretty much mine, that other guy and his sisters(my girlfriend). But i am just using tap water(is using RO more benefitial...and how much of a water change is needed? 40-50% right?) and the algae is kind of a brownish/orange. Theres not ALOT but a decent amount. Should i run to the fish store and buy some snails of anything? Also the fish seem to be doing great. We have a yellow tail damsel and a green damsel. The yellow tail seems to be diggin a hole in the coral under some live rock...im hopin this is no big deal. Thanks for the help.

 

[Atari]

Hey.. glad to hear the fish are still alive and kicking!

By all means get some snails if the cycling is complete. Do you have the test results that Steve mentioned above?

It will definitely cut down on the algae if you can use RO water.. 25% every couple weeks should do the trick.

I personally find the best way to tackle that brown/orange stuff on the glass is with a (new) toothbrush. I can't say my snails ever went near it, they seem to prefer green.