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Old 12-18-2011, 05:49 PM   #11
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agree with you doug, i am a believe of a DSB because nature has a DSB, when a DSB is properly seeded and is given the right amount of time to be established it can work wonders and last a long time.

cmor1701d has had a DSB in his 125 for years and has even had a power head fall and blow into his sand bed untill you could see the glass bottom with no problems at all.
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Old 12-18-2011, 05:54 PM   #12
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so those where it has failed should look into more detail with what caused the problems rather than assuming it was the sand bed? i can buy that.
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Old 12-18-2011, 06:24 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by kay-bee19

Looks like I'm in that 5-7yr window, my reef tank (with 3.5"-4.5" sandbed) has been running for over 5 years...no issues...yet.

The nitrate to nitrogen gas process in the DSB is performed by microscopic anaerobic bacteria residing in (and requiring) an environment several inches beneath the surface of the sand. Maybe the goby's impact on the process is just disturbence of this oxygen-free environment rather than the consumption of creatures?
No the creatures turn the sand and prevent large build up of gases, the goby eats them, therefore decreasing the safety of the dsb, nothing to do with the bacteria except the goby will oxygenate the sand by turning it over too quickly also and kill the anaerobic bacteria. Here is a great article on DSB, one that I used to do my 72g.

http://www.ronshimek.com/deep_sand_beds.html

Has lots of good info.
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Old 12-18-2011, 07:49 PM   #14
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the goby does eat the worms but the worms can burrow below the level that a sifting goby looks. i agree that they goby can eat the worms but i had a blue dotted sleeper and i still had worms living in the sand as well i have nassarius snails that can help turn over the sand
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Old 12-18-2011, 09:02 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by mr_X View Post
i've never utilized a DSB for filtration. for this current tank i do, sort of have a dsb. it's 6" of sand, but it's in between a lot of limestone the size of ballast (pics in the build thread). will it cause me problems? we'll see, but it's doubtful since it's only a temporary tank until i can construct something larger. after the winter.

i've heard conflicting info about deep beds. some say that they don't last long (as stated above), then others say they offer excellent nitrate reduction with very little maintenance. they say you must stir the top a bit here and there, so a sand sifting fish would not be detrimental to it...on the contrary, they would be a help, as long as it wasn't an engineer goby or something that digs giant holes and buries corals and rock on a daily basis.

my argument is - why doesn't the sand bottom of the ocean nuke it? it's super deep. shouldn't it be spewing poisons on a regular basis?
An aquarium and the ocean are very different environments, why do diseases that exist in the ocean relatively harmless kill the inhabitants of our tanks? Because they are different environments. No one does a water change in the ocean, yet it survives as well. I think comparing a Dsb tank vs non Dsb tank is much closer than comparing Dsb tank to the ocean. I have a Dsb, and like I said before I have no detectable nitrates even with irregular water changes. Show me a tank 10, 20, 30 years old with a Dsb and I would reconsider the longevity. I have searched and searched and can't find one older than 7.5 years. That person, cmor1701d, even told me to do a remote sand bed if I wanted the tank to run a few decades.

Also, the OP was asking about a Dsb in a fowlr system, where there is really no need to have zero nitrates, so for longevity sake, that is why I lean towards no in this case. I would want the space for more fish!
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Old 12-18-2011, 09:06 PM   #16
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0 trates would be great. but now that i have it in place im thinking the swimming room would be better than letting a water change slide for an extra week.

does anyone have an easy or good way of removing sand?
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Old 12-18-2011, 09:33 PM   #17
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0 trates would be great. but now that i have it in place im thinking the swimming room would be better than letting a water change slide for an extra week.

does anyone have an easy or good way of removing sand?
Lol! I think you can syphon or use a container and scoop it out. I agree, I actually waited to order my tank until I decided on dsb or not because if I was doing dsb I was going to make it 30" and put trim around it to hide the yucky look. Do you have a tank build thread?
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Old 12-19-2011, 12:18 AM   #18
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No build thread.

I took out the dsb with a clean dustpan and a tupperware container and carried out in a bucket. Took about 2 hours, top layer was pfs and i had to kind of move it around so i could keep the white sand look. I think I would have kept it if I had a 150. In this 125 I just didn't have the hight and I want the fish to have room to swim in.


Thanks to every one for your input.
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Old 12-19-2011, 12:37 AM   #19
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An aquarium and the ocean are very different environments, why do diseases that exist in the ocean relatively harmless kill the inhabitants of our tanks? Because they are different environments. No one does a water change in the ocean, yet it survives as well. I think comparing a Dsb tank vs non Dsb tank is much closer than comparing Dsb tank to the ocean. I have a Dsb, and like I said before I have no detectable nitrates even with irregular water changes. Show me a tank 10, 20, 30 years old with a Dsb and I would reconsider the longevity. I have searched and searched and can't find one older than 7.5 years. That person, cmor1701d, even told me to do a remote sand bed if I wanted the tank to run a few decades.

Also, the OP was asking about a Dsb in a fowlr system, where there is really no need to have zero nitrates, so for longevity sake, that is why I lean towards no in this case. I would want the space for more fish!

you do not have to do waterchanges in the ocean because nature has its own way of purifying the water, that being by having a deep sand bed that helps complete the nitrification process and also has micro and macro algaes that soak up any organics in the water, not to mention the shear volume of the ocean. which is what most reefers what to achieve these days is an environment that is sililar to the one nature supplies, we place micro and macro algaes in a fuge we place a DSB in the tanks, we use live rock to break down organics. nature also uses its own natural skimmer. nature makes whirlpools giant waves that generate a foamie skimmate that helps remove organics and pushs them to shore and out of the water, and has its own ATO which is rain.
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Old 12-19-2011, 12:45 AM   #20
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Would a sanded in freshwater be bad as well? I love the look of a sandbed, mine is only 1.5-2 inches deep and I have a few MTS to help me sift the sand.
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