Do I have the proper setup?

[skip_16157]

I have a 55 long tank that is been running for 5 weeks. My LFS told me that I had everthing I needed to have a saltwater tank.I converted my freshwater into this saltwater.

I have a Whisper power filter I belive a #5 and I'm not using the carbon in the filters, UGF with 4 lift tubes, 1 power head to move the water length wise across the tank, 3 1/2 crushed coral that is 3 different types, 2 20,000k coralife bulbs and a couple pounds of live rock. I took the carbon out of the filters becaues I have been adding Vitamin C, trace minerals and garlic. The LFS told me to take the carbon out as it wouldn't deplete my added chemicals. I've done 2 water changes and still my nitrites and nitrates are always high? Ammonia and PH are 0 and 8.1. I have a Yellow tang, domino damsel, percula clown, 2 turbo snails and about 10 hermit crabs.

Do I need more equipment or a different type of filter? If I add more Live Rock will this solve my Nitrate and Nitrite problem?

My fish seem to be doing well? All help is much appreciated!

 

[michealprater]

First off I would loose the UGF, however your tank is setup already so its probably to late to remove it now.

I would recommend at least 45 Lbs of live rock for a 55 gal. That would definatly help with your nitrate problem. If your nitrites stay high for much longer your fish will start to die. Might want to do a 25% water change.

Seems like youve got a awful lot in your tank for it being only 5 weeks old. Plus you need to change out 10% of your water on a weekly basis.

Ive never heard of adding vitamin C to a tank.

Not for sure, but I think your lfs may be misleading you a bit. Hopefully some of us on this forum can get you pointed in the right direction.

Have you read "The New Marine Aquarium" By Michael Palleta? If not I would say that you should definatly do that.

 

[fishfreek]

I have a Whisper power filter I belive a #5 and I'm not using the carbon in the filters,

Do you know the GPH flow rate of this powerfilter? If you dont have the carbon in the filter I can bet you dont have any filter floss in the filter either. If that is the case then its just a hang on powerhead creating current. Now there is nothing wrong with this. In fact I am using a el'cheapo hang on filter for the same thing in my 20.

UGF with 4 lift tubes, 1 power head to move the water length wise across the tank, 3 1/2 crushed coral that is 3 different types, 2 20,000k coralife bulbs and a couple pounds of live rock.

Well I dont really like UGF's for saltwater. They can end up giving you greef in the long run if you want to keep corals as your nitrate levels will be very hard to keep at a low enough level.

Ideally you want to try for 10 X Flow rate in your tank. So thats 550GPH at a minimum. You might want 1 or 2 more PH's in the tank. Are you saying the CC is 3 1/2" deep? If so then this might be the cause of your nitrates being high.

You dont say what these levels are. Could you give us the numerical reading that your getting on your test kits for the

• Ammonia
  Nitrite
  Nitrate

See your other post about the amount of LR needed for it to be a good bio filter.

I took the carbon out of the filters becaues I have been adding Vitamin C, trace minerals and garlic. The LFS told me to take the carbon out as it wouldn't deplete my added chemicals. I've done 2 water changes and still my nitrites and nitrates are always high? Ammonia and PH are 0 and 8.1. I have a Yellow tang, domino damsel, percula clown, 2 turbo snails and about 10 hermit crabs.

Are you adding garlic as a preventive for ICH? How are you adding it? Are you soaking the food in it?

Did you see the ammonia go up and then come down? The nitrogen cycle should go Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate with the elements rising and then falling and then going to 0 in that order. But you will have a very hard time getting to 0 nitrate with a deep cc substrate and the UFG in place.

Overall your tank is in not that bad of shape.

 

[skip_16157]

my total depth is 3 1/2" including my UGF. Nitrates were 160 then did a partial and they went to 30. 3 days later and they are now 130. Nitrites are 10 amonia is 10 - 15. I did not notice change in my ammonias. I only removed the carbon out of the floss, so yes I am using the floss.Garlic is being used as a preventative by soaking it in food before feeding. What is more important Nitrites or trates? What do you recomend to do as a partial water changes (how amny and when, and how often)

Thanks everyone for the help!

 

[Guest]

Water Changes

Correct me if I'm wrong,,,I was told that you never do water changes until your tank has fully cycled...I did a water change in the middle of cycling and it prolonged my cycle I would say at least another 3 weeks..Also, I was told not to add anything to the water and to let mother nature take its course... I did however do a 25% water change after cycling...

I do agree with Micheal, Sounds like too much at one time in the tank..I hope the little buggers are hanging in there and will continue...I lost my domino damsel due to cycling...

I also started out with an UGF and recently ditched it because I thought it didn't look good and my nitrates were sky high...I went with the play sand and it is much lower and much more pleasing to the eye...My fish like to play in it also...

 

[michealprater]

Honestly with the nitrites and ammonia reading where they are, its a wonder how those three fish are still alive. Must of got some tough ones.

Skip, are your test kits newer? If they are old they may be inaccurate.

Although it has been argued, I would try TLC. Ive used it and it works great. It will knock the ammonia and nitrites out in a 24 hour period. Plus, with the tank being up for 5 weeks your cycle should be complete. However, with a UGF, nitrates may be a problem you have for quite a while. If you have a good enough relationship with your LFS, maybe they would house your fish , snails, and hermits while you removed the UGF. Then you could get your domino back and recycle the tank with him. The reason I say recycle, is because you would stir up the sand bed so much it would probably break the existing cycle. I dunno, just a thought.

 

[fishfreek]

If your cycling your tank with fish then its a fine line between having a shorter cycle or keeping the fish your using alive. It would be unethical for us to avocate the death of fish because due to bad luck they got selected as 'cycle fish'.

Once you have fish in the tank your #1 priority IMHO should be to keep them alive. Should you prolong the cycle in keeping them alive then thats the way its gonna be.

I dont see how anything is living with a nitrite level of 10. Are you sure its not 1.0? Even that is very high.

What test kits are you using? Are they rated for saltwater?

 

[skip_16157]

I bought a brand new saltwater test kit from Petsmart. It only tests ammonia, high ph, nitrite and trates. My nitrites color chart shows that my color would be a 10? I am also using Ammolock fo ammonia, but these levels aren't high. Just my trites and trates. I am using TLC with my water changes. Could I just pull the UGF out. It is a 2 piece filter. I could probably move my rock to one side and pull out a piece at a time.

I had alot of respect for my LFS. I've been going there for years. They told me to run my tank for a week and add a fish per week and monitor my water levels. This seems to be bullshit that they gave me. Also he said to keep the UGF. I accepted that because he has these in all of his tanks in his shop. I plan on buying books but I'm stuck between a rock and a hard spot as I'm trying to save my fish. And I'm just thankfull people out there like you can help! And I thought I could rely on his information (Guess I was wrong). He never mentioned once about cycling?.

All help is very appreciated.

 

[fishfreek]

Can you tell us the brand name on your kit. The only reason I ask is that many test kits will give you a false ammonia reading once you use ammolock. Nothing wrong with using this just that you should know that your gonna test + for ammonia after using it even if you have no 'toxic' ammonia.

Nitrite is just as toxic as ammonia. Nitrate is not toxic to fish in low qtys but its been debated how healthy high levels (above 100ppm) of nitrate are.

Are you syphoing your substrate when you do water changes? How much are you feeding? What are you feeding?

Many LFS's run UGF's on the for sale tanks. Does this guy have any saltwater display tanks? (ie tanks that have fish and corals that are not for sale) If so does he have UGF's on them aswell?

Sorry for all the ?'s but the more info we can get the better and more accurate our help will be.

 

[skip_16157]

First off not a problem at all ansewring your Q's. Afterall you are helping me!

Aquarium Pharmaceuticals is my test kit.
I do not syphon my substrate, only water.
I feed every other day. Either Aquadine or brine shrimp.
No, he does not have a SW display tank.

I noticed you are also on the East coat. What is the prope times setting to make in your profile. It is 11:50 am right now.

 

[fishfreek]

Your profile should be at GMT -5 for proper time settings. The site default should be set to that aswell.

Ok I think the Aquarium Pharm kits are the type that will detect the non toxic version of ammonia that the ammonolock converts the ammonoa to. Only water changes will remove this non toxic out of the tank so your kits will show 0 ammonoa after the use.

I would syphon teh substrate as the bulk of your nitrate and nitrite issues probably are within the substrate. Gravel vac 1/2 of the tank and then wait a few days to to the other half.

No display tank tells me that he has not setup tanks for the 'long haul'. THe for sale tanks ideally should have a reltivly quick turn over time of getting fish in and selling them out so nitrate build up is not an issue.

 

[skip_16157]

Should I remove my UGF?
Also what is a good test kit for ammonia?
How often and how long should I expect to continue water changes?

 

[fishfreek]

Your test kit is fine. Just wanted to you be aware of the effects of ammnolock on some types of kits.

Continue water changes till nitrite is 0 along with ammonia and nitrate should be less than 50ppm.

I am very concerned its that high after just a short time period. I was thinking it was from overfeeding but if you feed only every other day unless you feed ALOT every other day then I am at a loss as to why its as high as it is.


I would remove the UGF and also have the CC substrate of 1/2" - 1"

Personally I like a DSB (Deep Sand Bed) for my substrate.

Dont worry your LFS did not steer you wrong they just sent you down a bumpy road.

 

[skip_16157]

Can I remove my UGF with my fish in the tank and then do another partial? I have 80lbs of 3 different types of CC about 2 1/2". I don't feed them alot.

How often should I test my water to determine that my levels are stable?

I have just tested my nitrite and trates today after doing a 10gal partial yesterday. My nitrites are over 5ppm and my trates are over 160! What should I do. They have been at these levels for 4 days now.

I guess I should of asked this awhile ago. Can you explain to me the benefit of not using a UGF versus using a UGF

Again, thank alot

 

[michealprater]

Fishfreek,
Do you think Skip could just make the UGF non-functional and just leave it in the tank. I dont know much about plenums but would this serve the same purpose if it wasnt functiona. I really dont believe in disturbing the sand bed, thats why I ask.

 

[fishfreek]

Well i want others to chime in here aswell.

But a plenum is very simular to a DSB but they are not as popular now a days. Not sure why but there are just not that many people suggesting plenums on new systems.

Its a crushed coral substrate so its not like its disturbing an existing and working sand bed.

With the crushed coral as deep as it is I fear that it is and will continue to be a detrius trap thus continuing to be a nitrate issue.

 

[Bob Ashcraft]

I would let it go. It's too late to save everything.

The crushed coral and UGF needs to be replaced with sand. That can't happen without moving the fish to another tank.

Just let it go through the cycle and see what's left, then, when everything is healthy, make the change.

 

[Guest]

Time

We are minus 5 hours GMT

 

[MaggiesGame]

Is there a problem using a CC substrate? I've had one for almost a year now, and besides an algea outbreak (due to a LR), I've not had any other problems.

 

[fishfreek]

No. There is no problem with a CC substrate if its properly upkept. If you syphon the substrate to rid it of excess fish waste and uneaten foods this will help reduce your nitrates.

The deeper the CC substrate the more problematic it can become.