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Old 03-17-2005, 08:45 PM   #31
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and feed them brine shrimp
Brine shrimp is the potato chip of the fishie world. That isn't going to sustain your fish in the long haul. I'd try some Formula 1/2/Prime Reef. That's pretty good stuff. Add in a little selcon once a week and you've got it made.

Hopefully you've found your solution. A varied diet is always the best course for your fish.
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Old 03-17-2005, 09:00 PM   #32
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runway1

your original post was very primative imo, did you expect anything else in return?

i am setting up my tank as a hobby, not as a science project!!

goodnight!!.........hopefully there will be more informative posts in the morning.
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Old 03-17-2005, 10:41 PM   #33
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thepirate,
Of all the posts in response, NONE except YOU have resorted to insults. Seems most all keep a level of civility. Thanks anyhow, son.
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Old 03-17-2005, 11:11 PM   #34
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It appears the original poster has taken a news article (which may not have its facts clear...this is Fox news after all), pulling it out of context, to use as a way to rational his choice to cycle with fish.

If you say it's ok to subject fish to a cycle because 'they don't feel pain'...then by the same token, its ok to kick or punch people who are para/quadreplegics...because 'hey, they can't feel it...no harm done'. As long as you can sell yourself on the idea, it won't bother you, and you can shrug off responsibility.

Sure my example is extreme...but extreme examples have a way of dissolving screwy theories.
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Old 03-18-2005, 02:14 AM   #35
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Speaking of which; I went to a "coral" store who has the healthiest assortment of corals I've ever seen. I described my problem and after several questions she says, "I think you're starving your fish. i only feed brine shrimp...!". Since then, I introduced a group of Chromis and feed them brine shrimp and bada-bing! No fish loss!! Can you believe it??
How long do you figure it takes a fish to starve to death?
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Old 03-18-2005, 10:42 AM   #36
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Kevin,
Not sure really. Still testing the suggestion. And Phyl has another good point - I'm feeding cookie treats so I better get to real food soon. At least they're eating something now.

Despite the impression that I'm a cold, unfeeling aquarist, that's not the case. If it's true that my fish problem stems from the combination of stress/starvation, that makes me feel pretty bad not to mention the ignorance involved.

Converting from years of FW is almost like starting with no experience at all. I'm learning fast and enjoying it. My wife, two sons and I really feel bad for the fish I've lost, believe me. I also found a water source problem (no wonder it was sooooo cheap!). I'm changing my water source and my feeding is still being scrutinized. I think I'm on the road to success now.
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Old 03-18-2005, 10:51 AM   #37
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It should take weeks to months for a healthy fish to starve to death, obviously irreversible damage is done to the fish long before then, but it does take it along time to starve. From the brief glance I've given this thread...I do not believe your fish died from starvation, the fact that you cycled with fish (while an archane idea to me) may have quite a bit to do with why your fish died. The toxic environemnt you put the fish in leads to stress, stress leads to disease, if you believe your fish had ich, it could be indirectly from the cycle as the stress induced to the fish caused the infestation in the first place and/or lack of quarantine.
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Old 03-18-2005, 10:52 AM   #38
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Actually, if everyone looks at how the discussion is going, this could be a really interesting topic. I just think it was started in the wrong way.

So, let me start out by saying that I would NEVER cycle my tank with fish. And it sounds like MOST people agree that they wouldn't cycle a tank with fish also.

Now, lets change the focus of this discussion to "Do fish feel pain?". I don't have any 'proof' and/or research or studies to point out as examples but, for the sake of arguement, one could explain that the response of a fish to "stressful" or "painful" situations is a survival instinct (sp?) and NOT a pain response.
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Old 03-18-2005, 11:59 AM   #39
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Excellent point, Steppa and I totally agree. Also, in hind sight, If I were to start a second tank I would use another method to cycle. Simply because of the many excellent reasons why not to use fish.

Do fish feel "pain"? I tend to think not, for several scientific reasons. But would I use them for another tank cycle? No, again for many intelligent reasons.
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Old 03-18-2005, 12:13 PM   #40
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OK, try this. What is a fish feeling when it rubs on gravel and on the bottom when it has an ich infestation?

What difference does it make what you call it? It is OBVIOUS that the fish is trying to remedy a situation that is unpleasant for it.

No need to anthropomorphise everything in order to understand it. Survival? Instinct? Pain? What difference does it make waht we call it?
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SG 1.024, temp 79.5, pH 8.4

Livestock I added:

1 skunk cleaner. 12 hermits: red, scarlet, blue. 15 or so assorted snails. Discosomas, Ricordia, Rhodactis mushroom corals, chaetomorpha (sump), 1 feather duster, Montipora digitata, Montipora capricornis, Montipora hispids. assorted zoos, Xenia, Kenya tree coral, green Sinularia, green star polyps, branching hammer coral, bubble coral, Devil's hand leather. Yellow chromis, purple firefish.

Hitchhikers: the usual suspects :crabs, bristles, urchin, mantis shrimp (now in exile in mantis tank)

List of possible/likely newcomers:

Feather duster. PJ cardinal, Bangghai cardinal, Firefish goby, Clownfish, Neon goby, Yellow watchman goby, Orchid dottyback. Various corals.
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