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Old 03-17-2005, 11:56 AM   #1
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"Fishless" cycle myth.

I'm going to rock the boat here because I'm sooooo tired of hearing how inhumane it is to use Damsels, Chromis, etc. as cycle stock.

Forgive me, but the reality is that the neurological and physco-emotional sophistication of the average FISH is slightly (SLIGHTLY) above that of an insect. The thought that an animal with a brain that could fit on the point, not the head, but the POINT, of a pin can actually feel pain and emotional discomfort at the level of a mammal is scientifically pure nonsense. We're not talking about Dolphins and Whales here. Where talking fish.

A recent study was completed for the bleeding hearts that felt a lobster suffered while being boiled (I know a lobster is an insect) resulted in proving that the neuro system of that animal had no ability to feel pain; physical or emotional (of course).

Like I said, a Damsel is, ever so slightly, more sophisticated than a lobster but certainly has no ability to feel significant physical pain as you or I perceive pain - much less any emotional anguish which has actually been suggested by some on this board. This concept is balderdash; that's right, balderdash. So, let's stick to science folks, and not bleeding heart, nonsensical conclusion based on humans with no zoological training, whatsoever.
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Old 03-17-2005, 12:08 PM   #2
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If you think about how many fish are collected from their "homes" in the wild, shipped across the world, and then bought only to know there is a good chance they are going to die, it seems pretty cruel to me.
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Old 03-17-2005, 12:09 PM   #3
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Please provide the location of this 'recent study' so I can read it myself. If you intend to make claims like this, you'd best have citations and references to back yourself up.

Also, please tell me where you received your degree in Zoology/Biology.
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Old 03-17-2005, 12:12 PM   #4
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I am above knowingly putting a living creature thru situations that we all know is bad for their overall health. We all know fish sense pain. You stab one with a sharp object does it just continue to go about its business or does it react? It reacts! That shows it senses something and based upon the degree of its reaction one can deduce it was more pain than suprise.

And the part about a fishless cycle being a myth. Are you saing there is no such thing as a fishless cycle? You must have fish to cycle? Thats what I am getting from the notion of it being a 'myth'.

If your goal is to inflame those whom consiter fish more than mindless enjoyment your going to fail because we are ALL above that here.
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Old 03-17-2005, 12:15 PM   #5
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Pain or no pain, why spend 10 dollars on agressive fish that you'll likely want to remove after the cycle anyway? The shrimp is cheaper, doesn't need to be fed and isn't IMO, cruel. I'll second Malkore's comments, you make a lot of "this is fact" statements but don't offer anything to back it up.
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Old 03-17-2005, 12:35 PM   #6
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Would like to second Malkore's question, would love to see the supporting data.
Quote:
So, let's stick to science folks, and not bleeding heart, nonsensical conclusion based on humans with no zoological training, whatsoever.
IMO there is no need to place a fish (i Like to refer to them as pets) into an ammonia soup.
Believe what you will, but I am not going to stop suggesting more humane ways of cycling.
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Old 03-17-2005, 12:51 PM   #7
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If there's another way why put the fish in? If something else works just as well then why use a fish? Why pay more money for something just to kill it anyway? Seems silly to me to get up on a soap box and stand up for needlessly wasting money and killing a fish. Go ahead, put fish in your tank before it is cycled. Nobody here's going to stop you. How much have you wasted so far?

I'm just shaking my head...
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Old 03-17-2005, 01:27 PM   #8
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Re: "Fishless" cycle myth.

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Originally Posted by runway1
(I know a lobster is an insect)
Um... what??? IF you know so much about fish, and zoology in general, you should know that a lobster is not an insect. It is SIMILAR to an insect, as they are both in the phylum Arthropoda, but so are snails and I don't conisder snails to be an instect., because, well, they aren't. Insects belong to the Subphylum (a smaller division of the Phlyum Arthropoda) Uniramia, while lobsters belong to the Subphylum Crustarea. And then, a smaller division is into Class. Insects belong to a different Class than even other creatures in the Subphylum Uniramia, so not all creatures even in Uniramia are considered to be insects, insects belong to the class Insecta, Lobsters to the class Malacostraca.

So.. LOBSTERS ARE NOT INSECTS. If you're going to make a post based on science, you should make sure all your facts are correct. If you post one stupid thing like that, it makes it hard to believe that everything else you say isn't based on nonsense either.

Wow, that was exhausting, remembering too much stuff from zoology last year.
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Old 03-17-2005, 01:36 PM   #9
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[quote="Phyl"]If there's another way why put the fish in? If something else works just as well then why use a fish? Why pay more money for something just to kill it anyway?
[quote]

I know! Call on me! IMO, it's because a lot of people new to the hobby don't have patience and they want something too look at right away. Also the LFS makes more money selling them damsels that will probably die during the cycle.
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Old 03-17-2005, 01:38 PM   #10
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Re: "Fishless" cycle myth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by runway1
I'm going to rock the boat here So, let's stick to science folks, and not bleeding heart, nonsensical conclusion based on humans with no zoological training, whatsoever.
Consider the boat rocked.

Anyone who would put a fish through unessicary stress knowing full well that there is a better alternative, really should re-evaluate their priorities.

It is our duty as avid aquarists to be responsible in everything that we do. Why purposely harm a helpless sea creature?

...that being said, I love lobster, and I go fishing all the time...go figure. :P
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