fishless cycling help

[daney90]

Hello, I need some help n cycling a saltwater tank. This is my first one so I need some guidance. I have my 55 gal tank running for about 4 days now with:

55 lbs aragonite sand
50 lbs marco rock
2 powerheads
and a sump (no protein skimmer yet)

When do I toss a raw shrimp in? and How often do I check my water parameters?

Thanks

 

[Jlsardina]

Throw it in now. Put it in a net and rest it at the bottom of the tank. Wait a few days and then test. Then test every two days. Once the ammonia and trites are all gone- throw another in and test in a day to see if everything converts to trates in a 24 hour period

 

[daney90]

How many times do I have to throw in a shrimp?

 

[Jlsardina]

Until your amo and Trites disappear in a 24 hour or less period.

 

[daney90]

Awesome!! Thanks a bunch I just put in the shrimp. Will it rot for a couple of days? I've read some threads that people actually leave it till it rot .

 

[Jlsardina]

Awesome!! Thanks a bunch I just put in the shrimp. Will it rot for a couple of days? I've read some threads that people actually leave it till it rot .

Yep. That's why you use a net. So it can all be taken out of the aquarium afterwards easily rather than letting it fly everywhere

 

[daney90]

I am using this thread again to get some advice.

It's day 8 of my cycle and I have

Ammonia = 4ppm
Nitrite = 0.25ppm
Nitrate = 0ppm
pH = 7.9

Also I have 2 medium size shrimp in my tank thats decaying (the skin is peeling off). Right now I'm very concerned about the ammonia and pH. Should I take 1 shrimp out so ammonia won't go over 4ppm? And how will I raise my pH?

Need some help

Thanks

 

[reefrunner69]

If it goes over 4 I would remove the shrimp. Mine hit 4 and then came down to 2ppm 2 days ago. I pulled the shrimp out yesterday cause it was nasty looking. I went to ACE hardware and got the ACE brand janitorial strength ammonia, I'll use that to feed the bacteria once it gets to 0.

 

[Jlsardina]

Don't worry about dosing right now for ph. Just aim a power head up to keep it from dropping much more. You can pull the shrimp out if you want.

 

[daney90]

If it goes over 4 I would remove the shrimp. Mine hit 4 and then came down to 2ppm 2 days ago. I pulled the shrimp out yesterday cause it was nasty looking. I went to ACE hardware and got the ACE brand janitorial strength ammonia, I'll use that to feed the bacteria once it gets to 0.

How long have you been cycling? So you are just basically waiting for ammonia to drop to 0? And
Why dont you want to use shrimp to feed the bacteria?

 

[daney90]

Don't worry about dosing right now for ph. Just aim a power head up to keep it from dropping much more. You can pull the shrimp out if you want.

Maybe I'll just leave the shrimp till tomorrow and check my ammonia again. If it goes over 4ppm I'll have to remove 1 shrimp.

 

[reefrunner69]

How long have you been cycling? So you are just basically waiting for ammonia to drop to 0? And
Why dont you want to use shrimp to feed the bacteria?

Cause it's nasty looking, thought I covered that. It started to cloud my water a bit, too. An ammonia source is an ammonia source, I was just tired of watching it decay. I've been cycling this tank since the end of April, and kept tinkering with it and it retarded the process. I did 100% water change cleaned the rock and started over 10 days ago.

 

[daney90]

My nitrite is still high after 30% water change. Its day 13 of my cycle now and I did pwc because my readings were
NH3 = 5ppm
NO2 = >5ppm
NO3 = 20 ppm

After water change
NH3 = 2ppm
NO2 = >5ppm
NO3 = 10ppm
I'm not sure if I should be doing another water change because some people say to do it while other say don't do water change.

 

[Ingy]

Your levels were not too high for nitrifying bacteria. 5 ppm ammonia and 8 ppm nitrite is fine during the cycling stage. Heck , 20 ppm nitrate isn't terribly high for fish even ( although lower is better).
Your ammonia is now low for the cycling process and you should add a small ammonia source back if you took the shrimp out.
Sit back, relax and let the process slowly develop.
If your amm goes over 10 ppm, or Trites go over 30ppm CONSIDER a pwc. Not a huge one as they stall the cycling process.
Those 2 levels should start to drop before trates go off the top end of the scale.
Don't worry so much right now.

 

[paytertot]

Your levels were not too high for nitrifying bacteria. 5 ppm ammonia and 8 ppm nitrite is fine during the cycling stage. Heck , 20 ppm nitrate isn't terribly high for fish even ( although lower is better).
Your ammonia is now low for the cycling process and you should add a small ammonia source back if you took the shrimp out.
Sit back, relax and let the process slowly develop.
If your amm goes over 10 ppm, or Trites go over 30ppm CONSIDER a pwc. Not a huge one as they stall the cycling process.
Those 2 levels should start to drop before trates go off the top end of the scale.
Don't worry so much right now.

No no no no no no
Ok don't let ammonia be above 4ppm and keep the nitrites readable, if either one is too high, it can stall the cycle. I don't understand how you could even possibly see 30 ppm or 10 ppm of anything, the tests don't go that high..
Also, under no circumstances do water changes stall a cycle. Very very little of the beneficial bacteria resides in the water collumn itself, its in your filter media and substrate and decor. In fact, you need to do water changes from time to time to replenish the nutrients and keep ph from going to low or too high.

 

[daney90]

I'm confused now lol!!!
@ paytertot yes I do agree that you can't read trites above 5ppm (edited my 8ppm) how much more for a 30 lol!!

Should I be concerned of my trites going off the roof? Or should I leave it as is?

 

[spoonman]

No no no no no no
Ok don't let ammonia be above 4ppm and keep the nitrites readable, if either one is too high, it can stall the cycle. I don't understand how you could even possibly see 30 ppm or 10 ppm of anything, the tests don't go that high..
Also, under no circumstances do water changes stall a cycle. Very very little of the beneficial bacteria resides in the water collumn itself, its in your filter media and substrate and decor. In fact, you need to do water changes from time to time to replenish the nutrients and keep ph from going to low or too high.

I agree that you cant let ammonia get over 4ppm. It will stall the cycle. You can get over 10ppm nitrate. Nitrate test go up to 160ppm. Water changes can stall a cycle. You are correct that the BB does reside on the rocks, substrate....etc. But the stuff that feeds the cycle is in the water, i.e. ammonia, nitrite....(that is why we test the water) If you change the water during the cycle you are removing the fuel for the cycle. This is why I like to use pure ammonia for the cycle. You can control the exact levels that you use. If you are doing a fish in cycle you have to do water changes to avoid killing the fish. That is a whole different matter.

 

[paytertot]

Water changes don't stall a cycle as long as you dose the ammonia back up. And I know you can have 10 ppm nitrAtes but I was talking about nitrItes and ammonia. I've done both types of cycles before. I think you kind of contradicted yourself when you said water changes remove the "fuel" but then said "you can control the exact levels". That's exactly my point. If I remove some of my ammonia by a Pwc, my test shows me that and if its below 1ppm I just dose it back up.

 

[spoonman]

My point was that if you use pure ammonia, you can make sure that the levels are right without doing water changes. Also, the bb needs nitrite to convert to nitrate. Water changes will also remove nitrite. Just my experience. There are alot of ways to skin a cat (so to speak).

 

[reefrunner69]

The only test I know of that tests 160ppm nitrate is API and that number needs to be divided by 4.4 to get a true reading of nitrate - nitrogen. As API tests for total nitrate.