Go Back   Aquarium Advice - Aquarium Forum Community > Saltwater and Reef > Saltwater & Reef - Getting Started
Click Here to Login

Join Aquarium Advice Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on AquariumAdvice.com
 
Old 07-22-2005, 11:00 PM   #11
AA Team Emeritus
 
Jchillin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: New York, NY (The Big Apple)
Posts: 14,953
This thread may have been better served in the lounge altogether, at least some FW hobbiest would chime in with some FW perspective (of which I am one).

Although I am FW, I too enjoy looking at and admiring SW tanks. They are interesting but I must say that FW can provide some things that SW cannot.

Fish - FW fish boring? I should say not. We have something called the cichlidae family, which provides some of the most stunning color variations that can be seen in aquaria.
Plants - Imagine growing a garden in your tank. Plants serve as a natural filter for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. And plants are by and large cheaper than LR.
Equipment - No skimmers, powerheads, sumps or all the other SW related equipment that SW requires. A decent canister filter, decent lighting and possibly a CO2 injector (which can be done DIY) is all you need.

Subsidary items - No salt required for each water change. Your test kit after the tank is cycled, will consist of NO3 and KH.

My 75 gal cost just under $300 and I didn't build anything myself. Of course, livestock created additional costs but I think you can see what I mean. Take a look at my clickys in my sig.

I will now return to the FW forums. Good luck in your decision and Welcome to AA!
__________________

__________________
_________________________________
Jchillin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2005, 02:37 AM   #12
Aquarium Advice FINatic
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Omicron Persia 8
Posts: 693
"You can put together a decent 50 gallon starter tank for less than $200 and improve on it as you learn."

I believe the operative word here is "can". Again, people with a used tank tend to have a used stand that goes along for the ride.

"Not enough filtration, natural or otherwise". I'm sorry, but What? A 4-6" sand bed with 25-50 pounds of rock, coupled with 10+ times the listed water volume in flow is not only enough for a beginners tank, it's more than adequate for a soft reef system. Properly skimmed it's enough for anything you care to do down the road. Some prefer canisters and w/d's. I think they are hugely overpriced, are not superior to natural filtration, and can potentialy be harmful to the system.

I did neglect a test kit and swing arm for the sg. Figure in $40 for a stand or wood for a stand, $10 for a hydrometer, and $15 for a test kit. We're now sitting between $189 and $277. Add 5 chromis for starter fish after the tank cycles and we're at $209 to $299. Right at budget for initial start up if he shops smart and takes his time.

My pricing doesn't include a sump, a good skimmer, RO filter, overflow, good return pump, decorative live rock, reef lighting etc. Because none of them are a necessity for a basic setup. But all of these can be added down the road as money becomes available. I believe most people overlook the "basic", "beginner", or "first" descriptor about newbie tanks. True, most will end up spending a lot of cash over time on a good tank, but you don't have to just to get started.

Peeps may disagree, but I definately have to stick to my guns on this. It can be done, and it can be done fairly easily. I've done it twice myself, and have helped a half dozen other do the same.

My personal breakdown:
112g square tank $50 - used
29g tall sump $30 - new
1300 gph pump $50 - new *
overflow $45 - new *
wood for stand & canopy $80 - diy
RO filter $100 - new *
skimmer $30 -used *
300w heater x 2 $30 - new * (bought 1 additional)
220w PC retrofit kit with bulbs $100 - new *
moonlighting $5 - diy *
100 lbs rock $150 * (bought about 50 pounds additional)
6" sand bed $12
tub 'o' IO salt $30 *
test kit $15 *
SG meter $10 *
Misc. hose etc $30
digital thermometer $0 came free with the heater

Total to date $845 for my great looking and darn near maintenance free reef if I had purchased each item specifically for this tank. But many items carried over from my first tank after I had outgrown it. After removing the items that I already owned, (*'s) I spent $375 on the big tank.
[/img]
__________________

__________________
indy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2005, 03:22 AM   #13
Aquarium Advice Freak
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: San Jose California USA
Posts: 333
Send a message via MSN to pufferman
where the heck do you get $1.50/lb. LR?
__________________
30 gallon SW tank;EHEIM ECCO 2235 Canister Filter w/Miracle-Working Chemi-Pure
TetraTec UV1 UV Sterilizer;Rio 50 Powerhead ;130w PC lighting;33 Lbs. of Tonga Branch LR;Nature's Ocean Live Sand (the bagged stuff)
Livestock:2-Ocellaris Clownfish;9-Scarlet Reef Hermit Crabs;1-Regal Tang;Zoanthids, Pineapple Brain coral, Sebae Anemone, Colt Coral, Galaxea
Tank Specs as of December 29, 2005:Ammonia:0;Nitrite: 0;Nitrate=0;Cu:0
PH: 8.3
SG: 1.028;Temp: 79-84 degrees F (Adjusts throughout the day)
pufferman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2005, 06:43 AM   #14
Aquarium Advice FINatic
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Omicron Persia 8
Posts: 693
Live rock fairy. I put $1.50 under my pillow... Base rock runs about $1.50/lb around here.
__________________
indy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2005, 07:21 AM   #15
Aquarium Advice Freak
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Batavia NY
Posts: 415
That's a very nice looking stand and canopy. That was DIY right?
__________________
I'm not addicted... I can quit when ever I want...Wait...I'll just LOOK at the fish.

55 gal cycling. Will be FOWLR.
haus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2005, 10:07 AM   #16
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Nebraska, USA
Posts: 6,703
You assume he can get base rock for $1.50 /lb in his area too. You cannot buy base rock wehre I live, unless you want to use lace or grotto rock, and that's $2.50 lb.

Playsand...the ocean isn't made of silica sand, so I don't recommend using it in a SW tank.

You'll want 2 powerheads each rated at 300 gph..not one 748gph one.

Fact is, if you're a newbie to salt, you should do it RIGHT the first time. Silica sand can cause problems...problems newbies wont' know how to deal with.

I'd definitely stick to a FW setup if $200 is your budget.
__________________
Former advisor and planted tank geek...life's moved on though.
malkore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2005, 11:00 AM   #17
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
lando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Savage, MN
Posts: 7,889
A SW tank under $200 is going to be a very big challenge. I am not sure it can be done. Cutting corners and going "bare bones" may end up costing you more in the long run. Do it right from the start.
Quote:
Although I am FW, I too enjoy looking at and admiring SW tanks. They are interesting but I must say that FW can provide some things that SW cannot.
I happen to be a salty, however, I do love looking at planted FW tanks. I no nothing about this type of aquaria and a nicely planted FW tank can compete with a SW reef.
__________________
Some people are like slinkies...they serve no real purpose yet can still bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs!:p
Have a great day! Brian
lando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2005, 11:12 AM   #18
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
We can be mathematically critical on this, and we should. But the main point here is, a saltwater tank is not necessarily THAT expensive. Like I said, I spent more than $900 in mine when infact a few smarts could have saved me hundreds.

Not only can you get good deals on e-bay, there are swap meets, there are LFS that clears out their inventories for new ones, there are classified ads for people who are moving out of state and are selling their stuff ASAP. There are so many things that I saw possible BUT after I have already spent that much.

Indy's point is true. I bought pounds and pounds of live sand, aragonite, and crushed coral for the substrate. Then I met other people who have home depot play sand in their SW tanks and have a thriving population of living things in there.

Case and point, if you are building a FOWLR setup, that's cheap. If you are building a reef tank, that isn't cheap. If you are a beginner, build a FO or FOWLR setup. 55G is a decent size. You don't need a sump for a 55G FOWLR or FO. You can just have a skimmer and a wall-hung filter. Trust me on that.

Everyone had a valid argument regarding things like test kits and hydrometers, ornaments, and actual fish. But getting started can only cost you between 300-500 bucks. It's not that bad.

I own a cichlid tank with mbuna, auratus, lake victoria cichlid, and yellow lab. I also own a FOWLR. You can't tell me the cichlid tank is more exciting to watch than the SW. Give me a break. I like both tanks but if you start comparing the two, like I said, it's night and day.

Don't be intimidated by the SW hobby. It's fun. and it's affordable.
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2005, 12:40 PM   #19
AA Team Emeritus
 
Jchillin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: New York, NY (The Big Apple)
Posts: 14,953
Taking on Salties does present challenges but I am up to them. I did say that FW fish are not boring due to the species you mention yourself archie1709. I also said that I enjoy and admire SW tanks specifically for the number of different types of life that is present.

That being said, look at your quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archie1709
But getting started can only cost you between 300-500 bucks. It's not that bad.
The member posted that there is a $300 budget and could it be done. Based on your quote, the answer is probably not.
__________________
_________________________________
Jchillin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2005, 06:43 PM   #20
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Poughkeepsie, NY
Posts: 3,294
I agree with hara and lando..

SW is not a CHEAP hobby... I have had FW tanks and converted to SW after about 1.5 years into Fw. I had a nice 55 planted tank with community fish and they were fun. I still have a 10 FW with some original fish from the 55.
If you want to do things RIGHT and have a sucessful tank you can not cut corners in the beginning because it can end up costing you more in the long run.
If your lucky you'll get good used items to save money then do it.
Your looking at a min of $500-600 to get it up and running, and IMO closer to $800 to do things so you will be ready for corals..
__________________

__________________
9/02-125 REEF, 125 lbs LR,LS 4x160 VHO, Reef Devil /Sump, Fuge
7/03-55 FOWLR 60lb LR, 50 lb SD sand 2x40 NO strip light, Reef Devil/sump, Fuge

TANK PICS http://www.aquariumadvice.com/viewtopic.php?t=98202
seaham358 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
build, fresh, ich, salt

Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on AquariumAdvice.com

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Deep Sand in Fresh Water Tanks? DeeDeeK Freshwater & Brackish - General Discussion 15 07-02-2009 09:08 PM
Fresh water to salt water, what to buy? pjos11 Saltwater & Reef - Getting Started 2 08-29-2006 12:56 PM
Favorite fish? Fresh or Salt...and why? IworkatPSP Aquaria Off-Topic 4 03-13-2005 01:11 PM
Fresh water fish in salt tanks QuagmireMan Saltwater & Reef - Getting Started 5 11-23-2004 08:53 PM
Salt or fresh water fish????????? rbball Saltwater & Reef - Getting Started 6 01-28-2004 07:40 PM







» Photo Contest Winners








Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:37 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.