Go Back   Aquarium Advice - Aquarium Forum Community > Saltwater and Reef > Saltwater & Reef - Getting Started
Click Here to Login

Join Aquarium Advice Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on AquariumAdvice.com
 
Old 03-23-2015, 04:04 PM   #1
Aquarium Advice Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Youngsville, LA
Posts: 2
Unhappy Help! missinformation by LFS!?

Okay so I am completely new to SW aquariums and of course my hubby wants the coolest thing he can have and afford so we decided we would want a snowflake moray eel that our LFS had in stock. Its just a baby and only 5 inches long. We set up a 15 gallon Aqueon tank that I had previously as a freshwater set up for my 2 year olds platy and barb fish. (Yes, I do know this tank will not be sufficient for him in the next 6 months at most, but that is why its just a starter tank. I read this is so much easier for a first timer to start with as small as a tank as possible and keeping it maintained better than a larger tank.) I did what I was told by my LFS, and set up the tank with live rock and live sand with a canister filter, heater, thermometer and hydrometer to test my salinity. With a tight budget that I stressed to my LFS, I purchased the API 5 IN 1 TEST KIT (which doesn't include a test for ammonia) and I was told I can hold off on a protein skimmer for a month or two. I just had this tank set up about 4 to 5 days ago. I brought in a water to sample to my LFS who then gave me the OK to go ahead and add two damsels and my SF eel to my tank. I was informed that the fish had a chance of dying but I didn't realize they were guaranteed to die within 24 hours after purchasing them. Now I am super concerned about our SF eel and whether he can make it thru this cycling process. He hasn't acted out of the norm since the fish have died. He is still active at night and he still has a great appetite. When I purchased him I explained everything that was going on with the tank and the guy never said anything about him being harmed or not making it but the more I read into this cycling thing the more worried I get. I did do a test last night when I noticed my fish acting strange, and the only thing that read abnormal was the nitrate. It was a little elevated. I did a 25% water change afterwards. I am waiting to take a trip back to the LFS to bring them back their frozen dead damsels and a water sample.
Has anybody ever dealt with something like this with eels? I'm in need of advice on what I can do to make this as easy as possible for my poor eel. I have been considering all day whether I should just bring him back to the place I bought him in hopes it will prevent him from dying from my stupid mistake.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2343.jpg
Views:	177
Size:	210.8 KB
ID:	268193   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2359.jpg
Views:	182
Size:	255.7 KB
ID:	268194  

__________________

__________________
MomOf2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2015, 04:17 PM   #2
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
mr_X's Avatar


 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Fairless Hills, Pa.
Posts: 17,895
Send a message via MSN to mr_X
Yikes! Bad advice from the LFS is right. Yes, I'd make them take the fish back and at least have them hold it until you properly cycle the tank. I'd also get more rock in there. Rock is a large part of your biological filter and especially with a predator, you are going to need it.
__________________

__________________
thanks,
Doug
mr_X is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2015, 04:41 PM   #3
Aquarium Advice Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Youngsville, LA
Posts: 2
Do you think there is a possibility that the eel can pull through the cycling process in case the store wont hold him. Such as daily water changes?
__________________
MomOf2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2015, 07:49 PM   #4
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
mr_X's Avatar


 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Fairless Hills, Pa.
Posts: 17,895
Send a message via MSN to mr_X
Daily water changes are going to hinder your cycle a bit. You could try some of that bottled bacteria like "Dr Tim's" , or Brightwell's "Microbacter 7"and feed very sparingly and hope for the best.
http://brightwellaquatics.com/produc...robacter7t.php
__________________
thanks,
Doug
mr_X is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2015, 05:20 PM   #5
member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Fall River Ma
Posts: 180
Ouch that is horrid to hear. I am in no manner an expert but wanted to toss an idea out for the eels survival. Wouldn't it be possible to fill say a 5 gallon bucket with premixed SW and a heater until the hold over tank cycles? Most "fish" stores sell Rodi water mixed with salt. Not ideal but better then it being poisoned in the cycle...

Sent from my SM-N910T using Aquarium Advice mobile app
__________________
Ravden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2015, 07:33 PM   #6
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
mr_X's Avatar


 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Fairless Hills, Pa.
Posts: 17,895
Send a message via MSN to mr_X
A strong bacteria colony will be necessary for it to survive- your bucket will be void of this. This water will show ammonia in a short time. I would monitor ammonia daily, and feed VERY sparingly if you intend to keep it in the display. A small amount of food twice a week should be plenty. Have a water change ready, and perhaps the use of an ammonia binding product like "Prime" or "Amquel".
__________________
thanks,
Doug
mr_X is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2015, 01:23 AM   #7
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
TheTodd's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Palm Springs, CA
Posts: 3,111
I would go with Dr Tim's One and Only bacteria. At lest it shortens the cycle time dramatically.

As for Doug's idea of using Prime...would that hinder the cycle in any way?


Sent from my iPhone using Aquarium Advice
__________________
TheTodd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2015, 01:59 AM   #8
Aquarium Advice FINatic
 
Alexwm125's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Corvallis, OR
Posts: 592
I believe it makes it a non toxic form for a time but the bacteria can still convert it to nitrites then nitrates? I may be wrong but that's my understanding of prime....


29g Community

3g Betta
__________________
Alexwm125 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2015, 11:45 AM   #9
Aquarium Advice Freak
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 220
Keep an eye on the eel, if it starts to swimming nearby the surface. Its a bad sign, the eel is telling u something. It may jUMP to its death if the top aren't covered.

Sent from my SM-N910T using Aquarium Advice mobile app
__________________
Toffee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2015, 11:26 AM   #10
Aquarium Advice Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 1
Ammonia and Nitrites are the main concern. Snowflakes can live with pretty high nitrates, but you have to get that far. Honestly Petco has a sale on tanks, $1 per gallon......so if possible I would get at least a 30 gallon tank and move everything in there and use the 15 gallon as a sump/Refugium. He may make it, but it is a very low chance. I have kept snowflakes, lions, and zebras for many years and all are very hardy.....but not meant to live in a tank during the cycle. Make sure you are using DI water for the cycle.....and definitely get something to help with the bacteria growth ASAP.


Sent from my iPhone using Aquarium Advice
__________________
leedrane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2015, 09:47 PM   #11
Aquarium Advice Addict

POTM Champion
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Southern Cali
Posts: 1,734
A 5 in 1 test that doesn't test for ammonia
that is just lame.

if the tank has only been set up for about 5-6 days and you are getting readings of nitrate, you can be pretty certain that ammonia and nitrite are probably at unacceptable levels.
No, eels are not good candidates for cycling regardless of what you have been told.
Morays are scale less and as such have more issues regarding their skin if water quality is poor.
Is it producing a lot of slime? If so, it's not happy.
__________________
PB_Smith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2015, 09:52 PM   #12
Aquarium Advice Addict

POTM Champion
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Southern Cali
Posts: 1,734
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexwm125 View Post
I believe it makes it a non toxic form for a time but the bacteria can still convert it to nitrites then nitrates? I may be wrong but that's my understanding of prime....


29g Community

3g Betta
Prime, when used at 5 times normal dosage, will bind up the nitrite in a form that is harmless to the fish, but it does nothing specifically to ammonia.

It is only a last ditch stop-gap to alleviate immediate damage until the water quality can be improved.
Don't use it thinking it will save an ailing critter or help cycling, it only buys you and the fish a little time to act, and that is only with high nitrite levels.
__________________
PB_Smith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2015, 10:26 PM   #13
Aquarium Advice FINatic
 
Alexwm125's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Corvallis, OR
Posts: 592
I don't depend on it at all I was talking about nitrates out of the tap. I keep my tanks very well. I have 0 ammonia 0 nitrite and 10 Nitrate on my main tank last time I checked.


29g Community

3g Betta
__________________
Alexwm125 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2015, 10:34 PM   #14
Aquarium Advice Activist
 
FreshSaltGirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Canada
Posts: 139
If you live close to your local fish store, why don't you take the snowflake back and leave him there temporarily while your cycle finishes? I mean, to me that seems like the most rational thing to do.
__________________
FreshSaltGirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2015, 12:27 PM   #15
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
mr_X's Avatar


 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Fairless Hills, Pa.
Posts: 17,895
Send a message via MSN to mr_X
Quote:
Originally Posted by PB_Smith View Post
Prime, when used at 5 times normal dosage, will bind up the nitrite in a form that is harmless to the fish, but it does nothing specifically to ammonia.

It is only a last ditch stop-gap to alleviate immediate damage until the water quality can be improved.
Don't use it thinking it will save an ailing critter or help cycling, it only buys you and the fish a little time to act, and that is only with high nitrite levels.
Their website says this "Prime removes chlorine and chloramine (even in high chloramine levels), and detoxifies ammonia and nitrite."
__________________
thanks,
Doug
mr_X is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2015, 01:07 PM   #16
Aquarium Advice Addict

POTM Champion
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Southern Cali
Posts: 1,734
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_X View Post
Their website says this "Prime removes chlorine and chloramine (even in high chloramine levels), and detoxifies ammonia and nitrite."
yes, but they only mention using it to detoxify nitrite or nitrate in an emergency situation such as presented by the OP;

Seachem. Prime
To detoxify nitrite in an emergency, up to 5 times normal dose may be used.

for emergency detoxification of ammonia, Seachem recommends using their Amguard as opposed to Prime.
from their "ammonia management brochure;

http://www.seachem.com/Library/SeaGr...Management.pdf
While Safeô
and Primeô are designed to handle the moderate ammonia
concentrations found in municipal water systems,
AmGuardô is designed to handle much higher
ammonia concentrations. It reacts rapidly with
ammonia. It is beneficial in any high ammonia
situation, including the establishment of new
tanks.

furthermore they don't even now how/why it works, they just know it does;


Seachem. Prime FAQ
Q: How does Prime make a difference in reducing Nitrates?
A: The detoxification of nitrite and nitrate by Prime (when used at elevated levels) is not well understood from a mechanistic standpoint. The most likely explanation is that the nitrite and nitrate is removed in a manner similar to the way ammonia is removed; i.e. it is bound and held in a inert state until such time that bacteria in the biological filter are able to take a hold of it, break it apart and use it. Two other possible scenarios are reduction to nitrogen (N2) gas or conversion into a benign organic nitrogen compound.
I wish we had some more "concrete" explanation, but the end result is the same, it does actually detoxify nitrite and nitrate. This was unexpected chemically and thus initially we were not even aware of this, however we received numerous reports from customers stating that when they overdosed with Prime they were able to reduce or eliminate the high death rates they experienced when their nitrite and nitrate levels were high. We have received enough reports to date to ensure that this is no fluke and is in fact a verifiable function of the product








__________________

__________________
PB_Smith is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
lfs

Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on AquariumAdvice.com

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Big Chain LFS vs. Puppy Mill LFS Lardeelion Aquaria Off-Topic 22 01-24-2013 12:09 PM
DIY LFS Be your own LFS - Just 49k on eBay! cmor1701d General Hardware/Equipment Discussion 1 12-25-2007 03:43 PM
Help me help my LFS buddy. austinsdad Saltwater Reef Aquaria 8 02-24-2005 04:58 PM
LFS Gave me bad advice - Help Please CBRGuy Saltwater Reef Aquaria 2 04-25-2004 07:53 AM
LFS and Live Sand - Help! ericsze Saltwater & Reef - Getting Started 2 10-02-2003 02:17 PM







» Photo Contest Winners







All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:01 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×