Help! missinformation by LFS!?

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MomOf2

Aquarium Advice Newbie
Joined
Mar 23, 2015
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2
Location
Youngsville, LA
Okay so I am completely new to SW aquariums and of course my hubby wants the coolest thing he can have and afford so we decided we would want a snowflake moray eel that our LFS had in stock. Its just a baby and only 5 inches long. We set up a 15 gallon Aqueon tank that I had previously as a freshwater set up for my 2 year olds platy and barb fish. (Yes, I do know this tank will not be sufficient for him in the next 6 months at most, but that is why its just a starter tank. I read this is so much easier for a first timer to start with as small as a tank as possible and keeping it maintained better than a larger tank.) I did what I was told by my LFS, and set up the tank with live rock and live sand with a canister filter, heater, thermometer and hydrometer to test my salinity. With a tight budget that I stressed to my LFS, I purchased the API 5 IN 1 TEST KIT (which doesn't include a test for ammonia) and I was told I can hold off on a protein skimmer for a month or two. I just had this tank set up about 4 to 5 days ago. I brought in a water to sample to my LFS who then gave me the OK to go ahead and add two damsels and my SF eel to my tank. I was informed that the fish had a chance of dying but I didn't realize they were guaranteed to die within 24 hours after purchasing them. Now I am super concerned about our SF eel and whether he can make it thru this cycling process. He hasn't acted out of the norm since the fish have died. He is still active at night and he still has a great appetite. When I purchased him I explained everything that was going on with the tank and the guy never said anything about him being harmed or not making it but the more I read into this cycling thing the more worried I get. I did do a test last night when I noticed my fish acting strange, and the only thing that read abnormal was the nitrate. It was a little elevated. I did a 25% water change afterwards. I am waiting to take a trip back to the LFS to bring them back their frozen dead damsels and a water sample.
Has anybody ever dealt with something like this with eels? I'm in need of advice on what I can do to make this as easy as possible for my poor eel. I have been considering all day whether I should just bring him back to the place I bought him in hopes it will prevent him from dying from my stupid mistake.:(
 

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Yikes! Bad advice from the LFS is right. Yes, I'd make them take the fish back and at least have them hold it until you properly cycle the tank. I'd also get more rock in there. Rock is a large part of your biological filter and especially with a predator, you are going to need it.
 
Do you think there is a possibility that the eel can pull through the cycling process in case the store wont hold him. Such as daily water changes?
 
Ouch that is horrid to hear. I am in no manner an expert but wanted to toss an idea out for the eels survival. Wouldn't it be possible to fill say a 5 gallon bucket with premixed SW and a heater until the hold over tank cycles? Most "fish" stores sell Rodi water mixed with salt. Not ideal but better then it being poisoned in the cycle...

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A strong bacteria colony will be necessary for it to survive- your bucket will be void of this. This water will show ammonia in a short time. I would monitor ammonia daily, and feed VERY sparingly if you intend to keep it in the display. A small amount of food twice a week should be plenty. Have a water change ready, and perhaps the use of an ammonia binding product like "Prime" or "Amquel".
 
I would go with Dr Tim's One and Only bacteria. At lest it shortens the cycle time dramatically.

As for Doug's idea of using Prime...would that hinder the cycle in any way?


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I believe it makes it a non toxic form for a time but the bacteria can still convert it to nitrites then nitrates? I may be wrong but that's my understanding of prime....


29g Community

3g Betta
 
Keep an eye on the eel, if it starts to swimming nearby the surface. Its a bad sign, the eel is telling u something. It may jUMP to its death if the top aren't covered.

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Ammonia and Nitrites are the main concern. Snowflakes can live with pretty high nitrates, but you have to get that far. Honestly Petco has a sale on tanks, $1 per gallon......so if possible I would get at least a 30 gallon tank and move everything in there and use the 15 gallon as a sump/Refugium. He may make it, but it is a very low chance. I have kept snowflakes, lions, and zebras for many years and all are very hardy.....but not meant to live in a tank during the cycle. Make sure you are using DI water for the cycle.....and definitely get something to help with the bacteria growth ASAP.


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A 5 in 1 test that doesn't test for ammonia :confused:
that is just lame.

if the tank has only been set up for about 5-6 days and you are getting readings of nitrate, you can be pretty certain that ammonia and nitrite are probably at unacceptable levels.
No, eels are not good candidates for cycling regardless of what you have been told.
Morays are scale less and as such have more issues regarding their skin if water quality is poor.
Is it producing a lot of slime? If so, it's not happy.
 
I believe it makes it a non toxic form for a time but the bacteria can still convert it to nitrites then nitrates? I may be wrong but that's my understanding of prime....


29g Community

3g Betta

Prime, when used at 5 times normal dosage, will bind up the nitrite in a form that is harmless to the fish, but it does nothing specifically to ammonia.

It is only a last ditch stop-gap to alleviate immediate damage until the water quality can be improved.
Don't use it thinking it will save an ailing critter or help cycling, it only buys you and the fish a little time to act, and that is only with high nitrite levels.
 
I don't depend on it at all I was talking about nitrates out of the tap. I keep my tanks very well. I have 0 ammonia 0 nitrite and 10 Nitrate on my main tank last time I checked.


29g Community

3g Betta
 
If you live close to your local fish store, why don't you take the snowflake back and leave him there temporarily while your cycle finishes? I mean, to me that seems like the most rational thing to do.
 
Prime, when used at 5 times normal dosage, will bind up the nitrite in a form that is harmless to the fish, but it does nothing specifically to ammonia.

It is only a last ditch stop-gap to alleviate immediate damage until the water quality can be improved.
Don't use it thinking it will save an ailing critter or help cycling, it only buys you and the fish a little time to act, and that is only with high nitrite levels.
Their website says this "Prime removes chlorine and chloramine (even in high chloramine levels), and detoxifies ammonia and nitrite."
 
Their website says this "Prime removes chlorine and chloramine (even in high chloramine levels), and detoxifies ammonia and nitrite."

yes, but they only mention using it to detoxify nitrite or nitrate in an emergency situation such as presented by the OP;

Seachem. Prime
To detoxify nitrite in an emergency, up to 5 times normal dose may be used.

for emergency detoxification of ammonia, Seachem recommends using their Amguard as opposed to Prime.
from their "ammonia management brochure;

http://www.seachem.com/Library/SeaGrams/Ammonia_Management.pdf
While Safe™
and Prime™ are designed to handle the moderate ammonia
concentrations found in municipal water systems,
AmGuard™ is designed to handle much higher
ammonia concentrations. It reacts rapidly with
ammonia. It is beneficial in any high ammonia
situation, including the establishment of new
tanks.

furthermore they don't even now how/why it works, they just know it does;


Seachem. Prime FAQ
Q: How does Prime make a difference in reducing Nitrates?
A: The detoxification of nitrite and nitrate by Prime (when used at elevated levels) is not well understood from a mechanistic standpoint. The most likely explanation is that the nitrite and nitrate is removed in a manner similar to the way ammonia is removed; i.e. it is bound and held in a inert state until such time that bacteria in the biological filter are able to take a hold of it, break it apart and use it. Two other possible scenarios are reduction to nitrogen (N2) gas or conversion into a benign organic nitrogen compound.
I wish we had some more "concrete" explanation, but the end result is the same, it does actually detoxify nitrite and nitrate. This was unexpected chemically and thus initially we were not even aware of this, however we received numerous reports from customers stating that when they overdosed with Prime they were able to reduce or eliminate the high death rates they experienced when their nitrite and nitrate levels were high. We have received enough reports to date to ensure that this is no fluke and is in fact a verifiable function of the product








 
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