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Old 03-21-2006, 09:20 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gotz_potential
So what your insuating, is that an environment without RO/DI is not optimal? That would just be naive.. I'm sure the ocean has an RO unit attached..
Actually the environment the fish are pulled from is mostly devoid of heavy metals and nutrients and that is why it is crystal clear and why we use skimmers to reduce the nutrient levels to mimic nature as best we can along with ro/di units. That and the volume of water per fish is 100 the volume of a fish tank and thus nature can handle a little pollution much better then we can.

I’m not saying that an ro/di unit is a must but when you consider all the elements that are found in local tap water which is essentially run off from the streets and into lakes like oil, pesticides, environmental wastes, ect then it’s more of a safe guard to filter out as much of the junk that the water treatment plants miss.

I used tap for decades when I kept FW and Brackish fish and did just fine but FW and Brackish fish typically come from the same lakes that have those heavy metals and pollutants and have adapted over centuries.

While having a different view and sharing your experiences is certainly admirable I am still not sure why you get so upset that we recommend a $100 ro/di unit that helps mimic the natural environment which is a pittance compared to the overall costs of maintaining a SW tank.

I have disagreements all the time with bio-wheel threads that state they are nitrate factories and should be avoided completely with SW tank.

I’ve had tremendous success running them for years without any no3 problems and feel people who do have issues with them are usually overstocking/overfeeding their tanks and not performing the needed cleanings that they require.

We all learn a great deal from each of our experiences on what works and what does not work and any opinion is a valued one in my book even if it does buck the “norm”
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Old 03-21-2006, 10:34 AM   #42
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Quote:
So what your insuating, is that an environment without RO/DI is not optimal? That would just be naive.. I'm sure the ocean has an RO unit attached..
Well, gotz_potential, it might not be a manmade RO/DI system attached, but through evaporation and rain, you could say that water changes are done with crystal clean water... Nature certainly doesn't run a pipe into populated areas, dump chemicals into the water, then put more chemicals into it to detoxify it, then suck it up and rain that down over the reefs.

I must say I'm a little surprised by how vicious this conversation has become at points. Gotz_potential, your point has been conceded on many occasions now in this thread. RO/DI water is not necessary for maintaining a successful aquarium. However, there are clear cut advantages to using it. As you stated, a forum is designed for the exchange of ideas and opinions, and so I am surprised that you seem to be taking our disagreeing with you so personally. The way in which you reply it is clear you are angry and/or frustrated while typing, and this is inflaming this conversation above where it needs to be.

I feel kind of sorry for Marty here, he's asking for our help to set up a new aquarium (his first), and instead we have hijacked his thread to battle over what type of water he should use. I believe that with the posts already here, Marty should have enough information to make his own choice, and we will support his decision. Let's get back to helping Marty set up an aquarium that he will enjoy.

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38 Gallon (Freshwater): 1 Green Swordtail, 3 Yo-Yo Loaches, 1 Clown Pleco, 1 Blue Gourami, 4 Otocinclus, 7 Cherry Barbs.

46 Gallon (Saltwater): 60 pounds Lalo Live Rock, 60 pounds aragonite sand, 1 Coral Beauty Angelfish, 1 Peppermint Shrimp, 1 Mushroom Coral, 1 Emerald Crab, various snails and hermit crabs.

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Old 03-21-2006, 11:23 AM   #43
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lol yea its kinda annoying but fun to read seeing how expensive its gonna take me longer then i ever thought to get started, but i have this aquasafe tap water cleaner i have been using it in fw and its working fine and it says its good for sw too.

so when curing liverock in a new aquarium im still confused, you dont fill the tank up all the way? just enough to cover the rock and when curing the live rock you have the sand placed.. and the salt and water is supposed to be mixed up 24 hrs before putting it in the tank?

im still a littly shady about the sump, could i build my own? because that would save me aloot of money. and with the lights in the 300 dollar range that kinda turned me off to the idea of getting corral i was thinking 100s or 200s unless i buy an old used one lol

i changed my mind again on fish im thinking 2 percula clowns, 1 (or 2) cinnamon clown and is there enough room for 1 more clown??

thanks
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Old 03-21-2006, 11:46 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marty_wolff
so when curing liverock in a new aquarium im still confused, you dont fill the tank up all the way?
If using it to cycle your tank then just fill up tank to the top with it in and wait 4+ weeks for your nh3/no2 to peak and get to 0. I would run a ph during the cycle but not light the tank for more then 4 hours a day or not at all to keep algae blooms down. You want to mix your salt for 24 hours for everything to disolve. Straight salt in a tank is toxic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by marty_wolff
im still a littly shady about the sump, could i build my own?
You sure can and this thread goes into extensive detail.


Quote:
Originally Posted by marty_wolff
with the lights in the 300 dollar range that kinda turned me off to the idea of getting corral
A pc setup in the range of 4-6 wpg like the Coralife Aqualight would be adequate for low to medium light corals and run less then $200. Or you could DIY for considerably less

Quote:
Originally Posted by marty_wolff
i changed my mind again on fish im thinking 2 percula clowns, 1 (or 2) cinnamon clown and is there enough room for 1 more clown??
You have enough room but it may lead to aggression issues when they mature.
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Old 03-21-2006, 02:48 PM   #45
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what do i do with the stuff that comes out of the live and base rock like worms and stuff, so right when i get the rock just dump them in the tank? it doesnt have to be acclimated right? im gonna have alot more questions about this as i get closer to getting it

and the sump still looks a little confusing to make, what does it do exactly? if i ever get it figured out im planning to turn a 10 gallon into one. so you can put an airstone and skimmer in the sump? the part i dont like is that u have to drill holes in both of the tanks or just the one that has the fish in it?:S

how agressive will the fish get and how long will they be "peaceful" with the 2 kind of clownfish im getting what other type would you reccommend?

whats the cheapest kind of light i could get for the oderate to low light?
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Old 03-21-2006, 08:50 PM   #46
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Marty...my apologies for allowing this thread to go off-topic a bit but it is a good debate. Too bad some people tend to take it personally. Maybe they just need a nap.
Quote:
what do i do with the stuff that comes out of the live and base rock like worms and stuff, so right when i get the rock just dump them in the tank? it doesnt have to be acclimated right?
All of the "extras" you get on LR are refered to as hitch-hikers. Some are good, some are bad. For the most part, worms, snails stars and the like are good. There are some exceptions. It also depends where you get the rock. Carribean LR, for example, does have a higher concentration of those bad hitch-hikers. Leave stuff for now unless you can absolutly ID it as bad. You can just drop the rock in a new tank. It will help you start your cycle. There is no need to acclimate it.
Quote:
and the sump still looks a little confusing to make, what does it do exactly?
Think of a sump as a mini tank attatched to the main tank. They have several benefits. First, they add water volume. The more water in your system the less it will fluctuate in terms of parameters. More room for error. Sumps also provide a great place to hide equipment like skimmers and heaters. This keeps them out of the main and makes it look better. They also provide a nice place to run chemical filtration.
Quote:
the part i dont like is that u have to drill holes in both of the tanks or just the one that has the fish in it?:S
I do not recommend drilling into tanks unless you are 100% sure the glass is not tempered. If it is it will just shatter. You can get reef-ready tanks with internal overfows built in for sumps or simply get an external overflow box that hangs on the back of tank.
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Old 03-22-2006, 12:16 AM   #47
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BAD news i went to the only store that sold fish tanks and the biggest tank they were selling was a 20 gallon tank so i have no idea what to do...i would buy off internet but you never know what kind of product you will get i have a 30 gallon but it leaks really bad ive tried to fix it but idk how soo it keeps leaking

what do i use to get water to and back to the sump.. besides heater and skimmer do i need to put anything else in the sump?? but the sumps just an empty tank? i looked at the articles and i dont know why i cant understand this

reccomend anywhere i can get a fish tank??

thanks
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Old 03-22-2006, 08:07 AM   #48
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If you have a Walmart close by they stock 55 gal tank/kits for around $150 and some even have bowfront 46 gal tanks.
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Old 03-22-2006, 10:27 AM   #49
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now that youve mensioned it i do remember seeing a big aquarium at walmart !! but its been over 6 months and all the other times ive been back they only have 10 glalon ones so should i just go to customer assiasance and see if i can orderone?

i found this picture (in"aquarium owners guide") and they have a "gravity-fed rapid sand filter but ithink its really similar to the sumps ive seen. and with this picture i think i can make my own

also when i was reading it says that its a good idea to have an undergravel filter even if it doesnt cover the whole tank bottom, what do you think of that?
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Old 03-22-2006, 11:50 AM   #50
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Ya, get walmart to order you one.

I wouldn't go with a underground filter. It's older technology and not recommended anymore. LR, LS and a sump/fuge and you'll be set. Not necessary to have any other types of filters. (only if you have a DSB and 1 - 2 lbs LR per gal.)
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