Is my cycle ruined?

[spinman]

All,

Just wondering what my latest reading may mean. To recap, I used Turbostart a couple weeks ago to start the cycle along with ammoniam chloride to spike the tank.

Yesterday, I swapped out the CC in lieu of a DSB.

Here are my readings so far:

key: nc = not checked
Date NH4/NO2/NO3
6/4 spiked tank with 5 grams of am. chl.
6/4 5/0/0
6/5 .25/.5/0
6/6 .25/0/20
6/7 0/0/20
6/8 0/0/10
spiked tank w/ 1 gram am. chl
6/10 0/0/nc
6/11 spiked tank with 1 gram am. chl.
6/12 1/nc/nc
6/14 0/.5/20
spiked tank with 1 gram am. chl.
6/18 .25/2/20
6/19 0/5/40

Questions:

1) Should I do something about the rising NO2?
2) Is a PWC in order?
3) Seeing as I'm not ready to stock this tank, how often should I spike with am. chl. to continue feeding the bacteria.

Thx

Mike

 

[steve-s]

What is in the tank aside from the sand?

1) Should I do something about the rising NO2?

No, it is part of the cycling process. The rise and subsequent fall as time passes means the nitrobacters needed for converting it to nitrogen are growing.

2) Is a PWC in order?

Not unless there's something living in the tank, which a hope there isn't.

3) Seeing as I'm not ready to stock this tank, how often should I spike with am. chl. to continue feeding the bacteria.

You can discontinue the ammonia use once the tank has cycled, ie.. ammonia and nitrites are being properly converted (undetectable) to their less harmful form (NO3) without your intervention. Just be mindful to keep feeding the tank with foods. If you have LR in the tank this will be especially important to feed the bugs and such, not just the bacteria. Keep in mind you are building an effective ecosystem, not just a bacterial base.

Cheers
Steve

 

[zacdl]

I second what steve said.

If there isnt some form of ammonia going into the tank all the time all levels will drop to 0 and your tank will be beack to day 1.

So keep adding ammonia (or food as steve suggested) until you put a fish in there.

 

[spinman]

My tank only has the DSB and all my base rock.

I also did a pH test and it was low (`7).

Does cycling drop the pH?

Mike

 

[steve-s]

My tank only has the DSB and all my base rock.

As long as you have a decent amount of base rock, you'll do fine. If you plan on adding LR, try to do that before adding any fish or inverts. If LR will be added in future, be sure it is cured seperately.

I also did a pH test and it was low (`7).

Does cycling drop the pH?

Most definately. pH as well as other elements of the chemistry will be quite "wonky" during the cycle process. 7.0 is quite low though, do you have a lid on the tank and is there much circulation/water flow?

Cheers
Steve

 

[spinman]

My tank has a glass lid. As far as water movement, The return pump (Iwaki MDRX 20) shoots the water up along the top of the tank via a black plastic nozzle that hangs off the tank .

Which leads me to antoher question. Is the water flow I have not enough for my tank? I see from your setups that most have powerheads inside the tank. My LFS guy set my tank up with the Iwaki 20 pump so as to not have too much flow in the tank. So I'm a bit confused.

As far as LR, yes I was planning on getting about 50 lbs sometime in the near future. But it seems some suggest curing it your main tank and others suggest curing it a a seperate vessel? There's a local guy who sells Walt Smith LR for about $3.00/pound and I wouldn't have to pay shipping.

Mike

 

[steve-s]

The MD 20RX is about 550ish GPH @ 4 ft of head height. If you have no powerheads in the tank, this is extremely low. Depending on the bulkhead diameter of your overflow(s?), you could easily double that. The absolute bare minumum flow is 10x the tank volume or in your case 1200 GPH within the tank itself. Ideally 1800-2000 GPH would be better. You should also loose the solid lid unless your sump has a large footprint. You will end up with continual pH issues even after the cycle.

As far as LR, yes I was planning on getting about 50 lbs sometime in the near future. But it seems some suggest curing it your main tank and others suggest curing it a a seperate vessel? There's a local guy who sells Walt Smith LR for about $3.00/pound and I wouldn't have to pay shipping.

If you buy the rock before you aquire any animals it is fine curing in the main tank. Just be aware the smell can be a little less than desirable at times. If you get the LR after aquiring animals, you must cure it seperately.

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/showquestion.php?faq=2&fldAuto=6

Cheers
Steve

 

[spinman]

Steve,

thanks for the advice. My wet dry has a 19 gallon sump. Are you saying I should remove my glass top? If so, what should i put in its place.

Thanks

Mike

 

[mjvincent]

Spin, you could use eggcrate (a light diffuser from home depot) from HD. I bought mine for about 14 $.

 

[spinman]

Thanks Mike,

Do these egg crates come to fit my tank (24X48) or do I have to cut it to fit.

Thx

Mike

 

[Shannono]

Do these egg crates come to fit my tank (24X48) or do I have to cut it to fit.

spinman, I had to cut the egg crate to fit. It's really not hard to do at all. I think I might even have used scissors to do it.

 

[mjvincent]

You will have to trim it to size, but it is easy to to with some wire cutters or the such (it is made of plastic).

 

[spinman]

Since adding the LR 6 days ago, I've seen no real change in the tank. No gunk in the skimmer, no ammonia spike, no funky smells, and no percievable die off. So given this, can this LR really finish cycling my tank?

I get the sense that this LR is pretty fresh.

Question: Should I continue feeding the tank with ammoniom chloride given that the LR is not adding any ammonia to the tank?

Thx

Mike
Cherry Hlll NJ

 

[steve-s]

Question: Should I continue feeding the tank with ammoniom chloride given that the LR is not adding any ammonia to the tank?

I would switch to an actual food source instead. The ammonia your adding will strictly be for the bacteria's benefit and while that's not a bad thing really, it does nothing for the rest of the tank. If the LR was that fresh with little or no die off, there will also be little or no nutrient in the system to sustain the added life for too long. It also explains why no foul odors or skimmate production, also not a bad thing.

If the bifilter is indeed holding it's own, the added foods should not affect the numbers either.

What are your current readings (actual numbers please) for NH3, NO2 & NO3?

Cheers
Steve

 

[spinman]

Steve,

Here's my numbers as of today,

Temp 77.5
pH 7.8 (trying to get it up w/ Kent buffer)
NH3: 0 (spiked tank w/ amm. chloride 2 days ago @ 1 ppm)
NH2: 2
NH3: 35
SG: 1.022


Question: When you say "feed the tank" with what exactly?

One more question: Do you read yor test vials direcltly against the white background of the test color charts or do you kepp a small space between the chrat and vial? When placed directly on the white background, the vials appear much darker.



Mike

 

[spinman]

sorry, I meant NO2 and NO3 for 2 and 35 respectively.

Mike

 

[steve-s]

Steve,

Here's my numbers as of today,

Temp 77.5
pH 7.8 (trying to get it up w/ Kent buffer)
NH3: 0 (spiked tank w/ amm. chloride 2 days ago @ 1 ppm)
NH2: 2
NH3: 35
SG: 1.022

Couple of points here. Be wary trying to fix pH issues with chemicals and be absolutley sure you are monitoring alkalinity in the process. Quite often in trying to fix one thing, you create an additional problem with alk/Ca. If the alk is within NSW values, chemicals aren't your issue, CO2/wastes/acids are. Don't forget this is a cycling tank so chemistry will quite often be quite wonky throughout the process. You'd do more to increase aeration/water flow and ensure the tank is getting proper gas exchange (breathing) than chemical additions.

Bring the temp up another 2 points as well as the salinity to 1.025ish if using a hydrometer, 35 ppt if a refractometer. This will also help your chemistry to some degree.

As far as your nitrogen readings, it looks fine. If the ammonia is being processed that quickly, the first stage is done, you just need the nitrobacters to gain in number/strength to deal with the NO2. Natural NO3 reduction will take months if not longer so you will need to deal with that using water changes. For now though just let it cycle. You seem to be progressing nicely.

Question: When you say "feed the tank" with what exactly?

Feed it as if there where fish in the tank. The added foods will rot, create ammonia and feed the bacteria the same as your ammonia addition 'cept without the nasty chloride. This will help in preserving the life (as well as feed it) while the tank finishes it's cycle.

One more question: Do you read yor test vials direcltly against the white background of the test color charts or do you kepp a small space between the chrat and vial? When placed directly on the white background, the vials appear much darker.

I absolutely abhore color match kits. Partial color blindness

Typically I place the vial beside the color chart against the white background. Also be sure you use natural lighting. Overhead/ambient light can often skew the colors to some degree, especially fluorescent.

Cheers
Steve

 

[spinman]

As far as food, can you specify what to throw in the tank? Can I get away with something out of my fridge (veggies, etc.) or should I go to the LFS and pick up something.

As far as my tank getting gas exchange, I can't see it being low, with the wet dry going, skimmer, 2 powerheads (200 gph each) and the return pump (500 gph) and the egg crate top.

Mike

 

[steve-s]

As far as food, can you specify what to throw in the tank? Can I get away with something out of my fridge (veggies, etc.) or should I go to the LFS and pick up something.

Preferabley something meaty, sinking pellets are good or even cheap frozen brine. Nothing fancy. I wouldn't use veggies, some cause sulphides to be released when they rot.

As far as my tank getting gas exchange, I can't see it being low, with the wet dry going, skimmer, 2 powerheads (200 gph each) and the return pump (500 gph) and the egg crate top.

I can, 820 GPH on a 120 is on the low side. The Iwaki MD20RLT is 420 GPH @ 4' head. You'd be suprised how easily pH is affected by lower flow/poor aeration. Couple that with a cycling tank (acids/wastes) and you're a prime candidate. More often than not it's easily corrected by opening a window and adding some additional suface aggitation. The skimmer adds nothing in the way of water flow or aeration.

Cheers
Steve