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Old 02-04-2012, 02:21 PM   #151
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I believe you can reduce the number of spores in the water...but total elimination I think is almost impossible. The reef is anything but a sterile environment. Any new rock, fish or splash of LFS water can reseed the tank. You can spray your bathroom with Clorox and find bacteria a day later.
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Old 02-04-2012, 03:13 PM   #152
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While it is easy to re-introduce Ich, the QT methods I outlined reduce that to near zero. Based on the lifespan of the parasite, an 8 week period with no host fish available is also near certain to eliminate it from the tank. It is a parasite, not a bacteria. Big difference and not analogous.

In the wild the fish with weakened immune systems are more prone to Ich and will tend to end up as food for some predator fish.
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Old 02-04-2012, 04:50 PM   #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmor1701d
While it is easy to re-introduce Ich, the QT methods I outlined reduce that to near zero. Based on the lifespan of the parasite, an 8 week period with no host fish available is also near certain to eliminate it from the tank. It is a parasite, not a bacteria. Big difference and not analogous.

In the wild the fish with weakened immune systems are more prone to Ich and will tend to end up as food for some predator fish.
My point is the "near zero" as mentioned. It is also super easy to reintroduce it accidentally. Obviously it's not a bacteria, but Cryptocaryon is a infectious protozoan that is quite capable of living via spores thru many different treatment protocols, there is the analogy. In most treatment scenarios, the parasite can only be killed when in a certain state of maturity. Hence the eight week waiting period. Pretty resistant little parasite. The trick seems to be to keep the fish healthy and the protozoan population low, so the parasite doesn't have a platform to multiply and cause an outbreak.

Your second point was the one I originally made, weakened fish fall prey to this parasite. It is generally not the initial cause of the fish illness, but it like pneumonia or staff in the hospital, claims the weakened victim.
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Old 02-04-2012, 04:54 PM   #154
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Don't forget...

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmor1701d View Post
While it is easy to re-introduce Ich, the QT methods I outlined reduce that to near zero. Based on the lifespan of the parasite, an 8 week period with no host fish available is also near certain to eliminate it from the tank. It is a parasite, not a bacteria. Big difference and not analogous.

In the wild the fish with weakened immune systems are more prone to Ich and will tend to end up as food for some predator fish.
...In the wild, fish have other organisms that clean parasites from them so in an open system such as the ocean, a parasite can move from fish to fish without damaging the host. In a closed system, such as a tank, the choices are fewer and the results are more deadly.
Just needed to throw that in there
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Old 02-04-2012, 05:00 PM   #155
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...In the wild, fish have other organisms that clean parasites from them so in an open system such as the ocean, a parasite can move from fish to fish without damaging the host. In a closed system, such as a tank, the choices are fewer and the results are more deadly.
Just needed to through that in there
I think filter feeders can also reduce the active population of protozoans.
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Old 02-04-2012, 05:09 PM   #156
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I must be really lucky. I've never had ICH in my salt water tank ( many times in fresh but..)and I've never QT any fish. I've purchased all but one of my fish at the same LFS and never had a problem
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Old 02-04-2012, 05:16 PM   #157
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I must be really lucky. I've never had ICH in my salt water tank ( many times in fresh but..)and I've never QT any fish. I've purchased all but one of my fish at the same LFS and never had a problem

That's called good luck. If you play the odds eventually you will lose. I didn't qt until I lost 6 fish after adding a single sick tang. So I now qt my fish going into the 125g. I have been horrible cause I've been directly adding fish into my 90g and I hope the odds are in my favor.
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Old 02-04-2012, 05:17 PM   #158
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I must be really lucky. I've never had ICH in my salt water tank ( many times in fresh but..)and I've never QT any fish. I've purchased all but one of my fish at the same LFS and never had a problem
That is indeed fortunate. I use to have problems with it 20 years ago, but modern water handling systems have made the tanks so much more stable, there is less likelihood of issues with it. I don't quarantine either, not that it isn't a good idea, I have found that people don't maintain their QT systems as well as their display tanks and that adds stress to the new fish that it doesn't need. A good LFS is the best QT system there is.

It's why Internet buying of fish and corals has been abandoned, for the most part, by me. I want to see the fish I am buying...is he fat? Is he eating? Is he freaked out? Does he have missing scales? Does he have ICH? If any of these are not positive, I wait for another fish.
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Old 02-04-2012, 06:50 PM   #159
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Many LFS run copper through their FO tanks. That may help, but if the fish comes in on Thursday and is sold on Saturday, there's not enough time for copper to do anything.

QT before DT is the best way. I went a couple of years before getting Ich in my 125. I had take most of the rock out to get all the fish. What a pain. Then twice daily pwc's in QT due to overcrowding and an uncycled tank ( I now keep a filter in the sump that I can transfer to QT whenever the need arises). Oh, and daily vacuuming of the bare bottom to siphon out any protomonts or tomonts, along with detritus. Yes a lot of work, but for me it was worth it. Hope I didn't just jinx myself.

@Greg, I think we agree more than we disagree. I just don't want to leave folks with an impression that you don't need a combination QT/Hypo(for Ich)/good husbandry as parts of a long term successful tank.
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Old 02-04-2012, 08:19 PM   #160
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Many LFS run copper through their FO tanks. That may help, but if the fish comes in on Thursday and is sold on Saturday, there's not enough time for copper to do anything.

QT before DT is the best way. I went a couple of years before getting Ich in my 125. I had take most of the rock out to get all the fish. What a pain. Then twice daily pwc's in QT due to overcrowding and an uncycled tank ( I now keep a filter in the sump that I can transfer to QT whenever the need arises). Oh, and daily vacuuming of the bare bottom to siphon out any protomonts or tomonts, along with detritus. Yes a lot of work, but for me it was worth it. Hope I didn't just jinx myself.

@Greg, I think we agree more than we disagree. I just don't want to leave folks with an impression that you don't need a combination QT/Hypo(for Ich)/good husbandry as parts of a long term successful tank.
I agree...I am just promoting the old theory that a happy fish is the first line of defense. As my fish have lasted over a decade in many cases, without ICH or other diseases and I add occasional fish without quarantine, it has been my experience that if you are careful, it can be done. But I also upon inspection find a fish with any issues, I do try to QT him to try to put him in a less competitive environment as my reef is fairly loaded. I rarely treat them with chemicals because I ran the QT off the primary reef system with the return going thru a big UV sterilizer and filter before returning to the primary sump. I found that giving them a resting place and good food would pull them thru. I havent had to set that up in years...knock on wood.

My reef is also loaded with filter feeders, so free floating organisms have little chance of making it.
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