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Old 03-23-2012, 12:05 AM   #221
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I haven't found them hard to keep either. Or maintaining a healthy pod population either. I'm actually about to buy a female mandarin to join my male. It'll be a nice expiriment.
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Old 03-23-2012, 06:10 PM   #222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Easton33
I personally think that the Mandarins aren't as difficult as they are made out to be. I got a green mandarin when my 28g nano was about 3-4 months old, way before the recommended time to get them. I supplied it with a pack of copepods and supplied my sixline wrasse with cyclopleeze, so the wrasse wouldn't eat so many copepods. Since then, everything has been absolutely great. Once again, I strongly disagree with the complaints of their hard keeping.
How long have you had the mandarin? Over a couple of years?
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Old 03-23-2012, 06:12 PM   #223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Sager

I knew I couldn't be the only one who had some success with this fish
The next big challenge, Juvenile Pinnatus Batfish?
You can disagree...but it is a fact. Most folks cannot keep Dragonettes even a fraction of their true natural life span over the long term. A few months or a year doesn't really count.
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Old 03-25-2012, 11:59 AM   #224
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I agree. For every person that is successful there are probably hundreds whose mandarin perish within the first year. I had one for ~6 years, about half of its expected life span in the wild.
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Old 03-25-2012, 07:00 PM   #225
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In all fairness....

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Originally Posted by Gregcoyote View Post
You can disagree...but it is a fact. Most folks cannot keep Dragonettes even a fraction of their true natural life span over the long term. A few months or a year doesn't really count.

In all fairness, I've had a number of customers over the years who also routinely killed their Damsels so the "Fact" that "most folks can't keep dragonettes" isn't really a complete statement. You never really know whether the problem was the fish or the fish keeper unless you were there.
I remember one guy, a long time ago, who would keep a rather extensive array of Angelfish in his 300 Gal tank (against my suggestion on some of them ) yet couldn't keep a tang alive to save his life so I'm just saying that there needs to be some follow up questions to all those who unsuccessfully kept a dragonette.

That all being said tho, I'm not suggesting that people go out and spend money on this amazing little fish if they don't do some hard research first. It wouldn't surprise me if most of the people you're describing as having problems keeping the fish are putting them in a bad situation expecting the fish to adapt. ( FYI: It doesn't usually work that way )

Just some more of my 2 cents
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Old 03-25-2012, 07:36 PM   #226
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I gotta ask...

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Originally Posted by cmor1701d View Post
I agree. For every person that is successful there are probably hundreds whose mandarin perish within the first year. I had one for ~6 years, about half of its expected life span in the wild.

So I gotta ask, did you know the age or your fish when you got it? If it were 6 years old when you got it then it lived it's entire expected lifespan. Just not all in your tank.
I used to raise Monkeys. I got one that was running wild in FL and brought to the store I was working at. We took it to the vet and the vet ESTIMATED the animal to be 2 to 2 1/2 years old. I kept him for 21 more years. The average lifespan of that type of monkey is 20-25 years when in captivity. I understand that this may be the exception but if I had only kept him for 17 years, would his life had been shortchanged because he only made it to 19-19 1/2? What if the vet underestimated his age? Maybe he was older and I exceeded his average lifespan?
You see, you can't always blame the fish. Consider that most people don't buy smalls (juv.) because they are a bit harder to keep than adult fish, you don't know how old that adult fish is when you get it thereby making it impossible to say that keeping keeping the fish alive only a year or so is shortchanging the fish. You may have kept it alive a year longer than it would have survived out in the ocean.

Just another avenue to think about
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Old 03-25-2012, 08:49 PM   #227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy sager

so i gotta ask, did you know the age or your fish when you got it? If it were 6 years old when you got it then it lived it's entire expected lifespan. Just not all in your tank.
i used to raise monkeys. I got one that was running wild in fl and brought to the store i was working at. We took it to the vet and the vet estimated the animal to be 2 to 2 1/2 years old. I kept him for 21 more years. The average lifespan of that type of monkey is 20-25 years when in captivity. I understand that this may be the exception but if i had only kept him for 17 years, would his life had been shortchanged because he only made it to 19-19 1/2? What if the vet underestimated his age? Maybe he was older and i exceeded his average lifespan?
You see, you can't always blame the fish. Consider that most people don't buy smalls (juv.) because they are a bit harder to keep than adult fish, you don't know how old that adult fish is when you get it thereby making it impossible to say that keeping keeping the fish alive only a year or so is shortchanging the fish. You may have kept it alive a year longer than it would have survived out in the ocean.

Just another avenue to think about
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Old 03-25-2012, 11:25 PM   #228
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I know if he arrives starved at the LFS, or ends up starving in your tank...he didn't have a good life. From time to capture to the toilet was a downhill run. The odds are very much against him (or her). It is only a fish...but I know with my deep background in reef keeping and owning fish stores, that it is a fish beyond my current ability to keep to a healthy old age. This is with tens of thousands spent over decades. Unfortunately, for them, they are pretty cheap. So give it a whirl...just let us know how it goes.
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Old 03-26-2012, 12:00 AM   #229
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Please understand...

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Originally Posted by Gregcoyote View Post
I know if he arrives starved at the LFS, or ends up starving in your tank...he didn't have a good life. From time to capture to the toilet was a downhill run. The odds are very much against him (or her). It is only a fish...but I know with my deep background in reef keeping and owning fish stores, that it is a fish beyond my current ability to keep to a healthy old age. This is with tens of thousands spent over decades. Unfortunately, for them, they are pretty cheap. So give it a whirl...just let us know how it goes.

Please understand that I was not critisizing your statement but just offering a different perspective to it. I've seen many a mandarin come through my warehouses and pet stores I've worked in that had no business ever being shipped to me. I've also had a number of customers attempt to keep this fish in unkeepable situations (against my advice) so they would add up in the "They die too easy" or "They are too hard to keep" column when in fact they just didn't give the fish a chance.
As for me personally, I've kept a few in my display tanks in my offices but they often would get sold out from under me . (That's the fish biz, you know? LOL) But I did have them eating and responding well because I took the initiative to create the environment that was condusive for them to thrive. I've also had tankloads of them where most were kept for some time because we didn't always bring fish in weekly. If they were there 3 or4 weeks later, they must have been eating what I was feeding because I didn't sell skinny Mandarins.
My tanks at home would never have been a good place for this fish due to the tankmates they would have had to deal with. As such, I never had the experience of keeping one as long as Cmor said he had his. I've just seen both ends of the spectrum and sometimes, just sometimes, it's not the fish's fault.

I hope that clears things
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Old 03-26-2012, 12:43 AM   #230
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No problems. I understood. I remember the old days when folks said that flowerpot corals were the only corals to have because it took them a few more month to die than everything else. People actually accepted that as successful, a coral lasting almost a year. Dragonettes can be kept successfully long term by either a whole lot of work or remarkable luck, or both probably. In a few years we will all look back to these days and shake our heads as to how ignorant we were in their care. Until then, there seems to be a mixed message out there.
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