More cycling questions ;)

[catmel]

thanks for all your help so far!

Ive got a few questions concerning my cycle. First off I had live rock in the aquarium ( about 60 #) for about a week before I realized the ammonia wasn't climbing so I added some raw shrimp, and waited about 2 weeks ( tested it in the mean time). Now my ammonia is at approx 0.25 ppm, nitrite 0, and nitrate about 20 ppm. I'm guessing this means the cycling is getting close to being done? I tested my source water, nitrAte is between 0 and 5 as far as I can tell .. the color isnt exactly like the first or second ( using the master saltwater test kit ). Another question being should I wait and do a PWC and let the water go a bit longer or should I do one now?

 

[ryshark]

When I cycled my tank I had the same exact issue and I did the same thing with adding the shrimp. Your LR is probably cured already and helping to keep the numbers from rising too high. Wait and see if your nitrites start to go up after the increase of ammonia. Or if your ammonia bottoms out to 0. Since you are getting 20ppm of nitrate that does mean there is a little cycle already. However, you need to wait for that ammonia to go down to 0. Is the "master saltwater test kit" stirps? If so stop using those and get liquid/test tube test kits. My advice would be do not do a pwc yet. Wait until the ammonia/nitrite is 0. I'm sure some of the others on here will not agree with the next part I am about to say but: like I mentioned I had a similar issue becaues my LR was very cured. I couldn't get the ammonia down lower than .25 and I never ever registered nitrite. After about 6-weeks of this issue, I bought some of that nitrifying bacteria in a bottle "SuperBac" I think it was called. I dumped that in my tank and it dropped my ammonia to 0. I then slowly started stocking and have not registered ammonia again.
But that stuff in the bottle is definitely not a cure all for cycle. It didnt work out so good in my 10gallon QT.

 

[catmel]

my ammonia was at 0 before i put the shrimp in. Ive tested several times ( btw liquid test kit with drops and colored cards to test against) and have had no nitrite. I just took the shrimp out today ( was told to keep in there for approx 1 week) so I imagine it might take another week or so to go back to 0? And as for the nitrate sounds like just let it go for now until ammonia reaches 0 then do a PWC?

 

[ryshark]

Thats sounds right to me.

 

[melosu58]

Wait for the ammonia and nitrite to get to 0 and then do about a 30% PWC. Did you use cured LR to cycle your tank?

 

[catmel]

Must have been. I had 15 lbs of LR from the LFS ( which that was probably cured ) I had gotten my 45 lb of LR from liveaquaria the day after. I had thought it was uncured, but my ammonia didnt go above 0 for a week, until I added the raw shrimp.

 

[cmor1701d]

Have you removed what's left of the shrimp?

If so then wait till the ammonia and nitrite to get to 0 and then do about a 30% PWC. If not, net it out, and then wait until the ammonia and nitrite to get to 0 and then do about a 30% PWC

 

[catmel]

Yep, removed what was left of the shrimp. Happy to hear my cycling was going faster than I thought I imagine another week or so the ammonia should be down to zero..

 

[roka64]

Do you have nitrAtes present in the tank?

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

...Now my ammonia is at approx 0.25 ppm, nitrite 0, and nitrate about 20 ppm....

I tested my source water, nitrAte is between 0 and 5 as far as I can tell .. the color isnt exactly like the first or second

Sounds like the cured rock you started with did its job. Since the nitrates in your tank are more than the concentration you're putting in with your water changes, it has to be coming from the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate conversion.

Once your ammonia drops back to 0, and assuming your nitrItes are at 0, sounds like you'll be good to go. Just make sure to do a couple large water changes to get the nitrates as low as possible. With nothing in the tank, there's no reason to do small ones. Shifts in water parameters aren't going to hurt anything at this stage. 30% minimum sounds good.

 

[catmel]

great news to hear cycling is almost done thanks for the help!

 

[catmel]

update on my progress - I did abut a 30% PWC, and my nitrates went down a bit but not as much as I had hoped. Its between 10-20ppm now ( was definatly 20 before I did the PWC) question being should I do more PWC to get it even lower or is it ok to add one or two fish for now?

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

Assuming your ammonia and nitrItes are at 0, you can SLOWLY start to add fish/inverts.

If it was me, I'd do several more large water changes to get the nitrates down as low as possible. With no fish in the tank, you don't have to worry about the water parameters shifting from doing say 50% water changes. If you have fish, then you have to worry about shifting the parameters too much and can only really do 20% (maybe 30%) at a time.

10-20ppm nitrates for FOWLR won't harm anything. But if you see yourself going Reef any time soon, you want that at least below 10ppm... preferable undetectable.

 

[catmel]

thanks for your input. Btw ammonia and nitite is at zero, PH is 8.3 approx, sp grav is between 1.022 and 1.023, and of course ( before the next water change) nitrate is between 10-20 ppm on the color card ( again using liquid drop kit and color cards to match it to)

I am sticking to FOWLR right now, I dont want to get inverts without having much experience with them.

I think i'm going to take another few gallons out and replace it to see if it helps.

I was thinking of adding 1 or two clowns and a few shrimp / snails. Should this be alright or should I stick with just one fish and a few snails / shrimp?

 

[cmor1701d]

A few gallons won't change much. Do another 30% or even 50% pwc, THEN add a pair of clowns, a couple of shrimp and a handful of snails. You may want to start with just adding a pair of clowns to start, waiting a week then adding a shrimp (what type?) and some snails.

Just keep taking small steps and you'll be fine (and so will your tank).

 

[catmel]

k makes sense. Ill do another large PWC ( aside from the 30% already) and get a pair of clowns in a few days. I imagine its safter to wait a few days rather than gonig to go get them say an hour after my PWC huh? LOL I know.. patience. I'm just excited my cycle's over.

After having the fish for a week or so I was thinking of adding peppermint shrimp / cleaner shrimp and a few Nassarius Snails Do you suggest One of each shrimp ( or one or the other ) and maybe 5-6 snails?

 

[ryshark]

Clowns are pretty hardy damsels. I think it would ok to add one now. Theoretically you could have used a damsel to cycle your tank, but its not recommended and not nice to the fish. But it does work and the damsel fish can survive even that.
I always thought that 10-20 for a FOWLR was perfectly acceptable for nitrates. One of my LFS says anything under 40 is ok, but most LFS you have to take what they say with a grain of salt, because they just want to sell you stuff.

 

[cmor1701d]

Just because a fish CAN survive a cycle does not mean that you should do it. Not all damsels survive a cycle either. Many lfs will sell you 4-6 damsels knowing that perhaps half of them will die during the cycle. Ammonia burns fish gills. Why do it when there are fishless methods available. Humans can also survive a certain amount of torture, but we have laws against that. 'off my soapbox now'

Nitrates under 40 are fine for fish. Nitrates are not generally a problem in FO until you get to the 80+ area. though that is NOT recommended

It took me quite a while to get my trates under 40 and down to level they are now (under 5).

 

[ryshark]

By all means I was NOT recommeding using a fish for cycle. I was just trying to give a reason showing that it is probably ok to add a clown now that her cycle is done, the ammonia and nitrite are 0 and she did the first big PWC. She doesn't really need to wait to add a clown which is pretty hardy in comparison to other saltwater fish.

 

[catmel]

Well, I'm very depressed. I went out and bought two small clowns yesterday. One had died this morning The other, as of right now is fine, out swimming around ok, so far so good for it I think. I'm so upset.. I made sure water parameters were OK before I added them, I acclimated as suggested.. I tested the water again after I noticed the fish had been missing for a few hours and discovered it had died..under the rock. ammonia at 0, maybe just slightly above - so hard to tell, certainly not at 0.25ppm color though, nitrite at 0, and nitrate between 10-20ppm. specific grav between 1.022 and 1.023. Temp had risen to 80 with the light on 10am-10pm ( was about 78 this morning) whats worse.. I had got my two fish from Pet supplies plus, great people and very helpful, but apparently they have a live fish guarantee on freshwater fish only. blah. this is depressing... is it possible this guy died of natural causes? my water seems to be good.. I want to make sure it was nothing I did, I was so careful before putting these guys in..