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Old 09-02-2010, 02:53 PM   #21
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Its a bit to narrow - if it was wider the flow would be spread out more not be so strong through the trap.
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Old 09-02-2010, 04:45 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Idaho-Tank View Post
Its a bit to narrow - if it was wider the flow would be spread out more not be so strong through the trap.
This is what I worry about with this design. Unless the sump is wide, I don't see how you can have an effective refugium and bubble trap in the same width. I was thinking much like you but have my ref. 7" wide and bubble trap only 5" but now I am 2nd guessing it.

I wonder if more traps would help?
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Old 09-02-2010, 05:04 PM   #23
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Here's the design with my measurements (not much different than Idaho Tank's):



I think the trap is too narrow.....
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Old 09-02-2010, 06:53 PM   #24
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Why not move the bubble trap about 1-2" to the left and go the full distance of the refug and live rock area? Granted, there won't be much room between the bubble trap and refug but it will be longer. Also, won't you get more bubbles just because of that waterfall regardless? Seems like it won't matter how long it is if there is a waterfall because you will get bubbles regardless...
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Old 09-02-2010, 07:06 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Smitty View Post
Why not move the bubble trap about 1-2" to the left and go the full distance of the refug and live rock area? Granted, there won't be much room between the bubble trap and refug but it will be longer. Also, won't you get more bubbles just because of that waterfall regardless? Seems like it won't matter how long it is if there is a waterfall because you will get bubbles regardless...
Yeah, I meant to do that but was in a rush when I drew that up. I plan to have it go all the way to the end of the refugium.

I'm thinking the same thing about the waterfall but I'm still curious to know if I put 2 more baffles in place, if it would help that. Kinda give the water more "ups and downs" to lose the air....
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Old 09-02-2010, 07:16 PM   #26
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If you have a greater gap between the baffles this should help as its the fast flow which pulls the bubbles through the baffles,like in a syphon pipe overflow box.
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Old 09-03-2010, 09:25 AM   #27
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Well, if you have two more up downs then you would still have the waterfall effect it looks like. Maybe one more where all the water goes into the return from the bottom and not as an over-flow...

I'm just throwing out ideas. They may not be correct. I haven't ever done salt myself or have had a sump but I'm trying to learn as well for the future when I do switch.
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Old 09-03-2010, 10:47 AM   #28
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Robert,
Some good comments above that make some sense. I think adding two more baffles would help - it would allow more time for the bubbles to escape without going through. I also think putting more space between the baffles would help. You might reduce your live rock chamber (which I really like having in my sump) but you have lots of length. I still would worry though as you are 2" narrower than what I have.

After some thought I think Smitty was on to something in his post #24 if I read it correctly. Don't run the bubble trap where I have it. Move the bubble trap left a few inches so that it runs the full width of the sump tank. Space the trap 1.5" or so left of the refugium. This doubled width should slow the flow down to a point where few if any bubbles get through. Your trap would be 12" wide (5" wider than mine!).

The down side to doing this is that you are cutting down on your already smallish return chamber. I would really be careful that you don't make the return to small. How does your return pump compare to mine? You want to be sure you can hold enough water in that return chamber to prevent that chamber from going dry due to evaporation should you leave for vacation or something... unless you are going to run an ATO? Your sump is really long, I would suggest taking some length out of that Refugium and making that return larger. I think if I were you I would go 12" in width for the return, then start the trap, then start the refugium, keep the skimmer chamber big enough for your skimmer....

I really like my sump a lot - I think if I was to do it over I would run a wider bubble trap just like I have explained - might seem kind of odd to have that trap run along the side of the fuge but I think the trap would work better.

As far as the water fall effect - the level of water in your return will obviously have an impact on this but I have noticed that any bubbles produced by the water fall into the return are big bubbles and go up quick.. they are not sucked up by my pump. If I keep my return mostly full there is no water fall at all. The bubbles that don't go up quick, the "micro-bubbles" will stay in the water column longer and after moving through the trap can go through my pump.

BTW, how tall is your sump? I am at 16" tall - height is an important factor as is the water depth (baffle heights).
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Old 09-07-2010, 10:42 AM   #29
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First off, I just want to say sorry for not getting back to everyone right away. We took some extra time off and enjoyed a really long labor day weekend. It was nice to get away.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David S View Post
If you have a greater gap between the baffles this should help as its the fast flow which pulls the bubbles through the baffles,like in a syphon pipe overflow box.
I will keep this in mind when building it......thank you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smitty View Post
Well, if you have two more up downs then you would still have the waterfall effect it looks like. Maybe one more where all the water goes into the return from the bottom and not as an over-flow...

I'm just throwing out ideas. They may not be correct. I haven't ever done salt myself or have had a sump but I'm trying to learn as well for the future when I do switch.
Well the water would flow through the bubble trap at the highest level of the first trap....so unless the water is really low, then the water should flow over the top pretty smoothly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Idaho-Tank View Post
Robert,
Some good comments above that make some sense. I think adding two more baffles would help - it would allow more time for the bubbles to escape without going through. I also think putting more space between the baffles would help. You might reduce your live rock chamber (which I really like having in my sump) but you have lots of length. I still would worry though as you are 2" narrower than what I have.

After some thought I think Smitty was on to something in his post #24 if I read it correctly. Don't run the bubble trap where I have it. Move the bubble trap left a few inches so that it runs the full width of the sump tank. Space the trap 1.5" or so left of the refugium. This doubled width should slow the flow down to a point where few if any bubbles get through. Your trap would be 12" wide (5" wider than mine!).

The down side to doing this is that you are cutting down on your already smallish return chamber. I would really be careful that you don't make the return to small. How does your return pump compare to mine? You want to be sure you can hold enough water in that return chamber to prevent that chamber from going dry due to evaporation should you leave for vacation or something... unless you are going to run an ATO? Your sump is really long, I would suggest taking some length out of that Refugium and making that return larger. I think if I were you I would go 12" in width for the return, then start the trap, then start the refugium, keep the skimmer chamber big enough for your skimmer....

I really like my sump a lot - I think if I was to do it over I would run a wider bubble trap just like I have explained - might seem kind of odd to have that trap run along the side of the fuge but I think the trap would work better.

As far as the water fall effect - the level of water in your return will obviously have an impact on this but I have noticed that any bubbles produced by the water fall into the return are big bubbles and go up quick.. they are not sucked up by my pump. If I keep my return mostly full there is no water fall at all. The bubbles that don't go up quick, the "micro-bubbles" will stay in the water column longer and after moving through the trap can go through my pump.

BTW, how tall is your sump? I am at 16" tall - height is an important factor as is the water depth (baffle heights).
Thanks Idaho.....I am soaking up all this info and taking it into consideration for my sump. I do worry about the return being too small.....so I will make sure I don't cut that too short. I won't have an ATO right away either, but I could see one in the future.

I think I will readjust my hacked visio drawing and see what I can come up with. Stay tuned.
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Old 10-06-2010, 12:03 AM   #30
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So any updates?
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