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Old 12-01-2002, 04:18 PM   #1
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Need diagram of sump

Hey everyone~

As the subject line says, I need a diagram of a sump. Not the drilled kind either, but rather the kind with the tubing.....
I have a 90g that I want to link a 20g sump to so I can put all the junk in there, I'm tired of looking at the heater, filter intake,etc.....I also want to make part of it a refugium. It will also enable me to consolidate my 20g's rocks and fish in the 90g. (Trying to cut back on the number of tanks here). The problem is that I'm only somewhat mechanically inclined so a diagram would be of more use to me.
Thanks for any help!
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Old 12-01-2002, 05:45 PM   #2
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sump diagram

This is a VERY simple diagram of a sump. Sorry for the lack of details...I'm a lousy artist. Blue is water going from the overflow to the sump...red going back up. If you can give us a better idea of exactly what you want, maybe we can come up with a more detailed plan. I'm not sure about a refugium...you may run short of room depending on what equipment you want to put in there. Also, remember that the sump must be able to contain the water that will flow into it in the event of a power/pump failure.
Logan J
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Old 12-01-2002, 10:14 PM   #3
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That gives me a good starting point Loganj! Let's see, in the sump would be a submersible heater, skimmer (how does that work with the water level so low?), and I would want enough room to put a bag of carbon in there if I wanted or needed to. I figured that half the tank could be for filtration and the other half for the refugium. This would be a 20 high if that helps at all....although if you thought a standard 20 would be better, I could switch some tanks around....
The pump in there, is that like a pond pump?
That's a good point about the power outage. So I would guess that the tube going out of the main tank would only be submersed a couple of inches so that in the event of the outage not too much water would be shifted to the bottom tank.
I just thought of something else I'd like in the sump, an automatic top off system, but that could be in the refuge half I would guess.
Thanks for the help Loganj! I've been kicking this idea around for awhile but have just recently decided to do this.....(I must admit I'm not too excited about catching these fish and doing all the work, but it sure will make the tank look nicer!)
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Old 12-02-2002, 02:12 AM   #4
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sump

OK...hmmm...I don't know if you are going to be able to effectively do all this with a 20g long or high. To start with, yes the pump is like a pond pump. I'd go with a Mag Drive....probably the Mag 12 which should yield about 1000gph at the height you'll be pumping to. They are submersible and are good pumps. The drawback is that, like any submersible pump, they put heat into the water so you would have to really watch your temp for a while until you were sure it wasn't going to be too much. It would probably be fine. The alternative would be to have the 20 drilled and use an external pump. To get the water from the main tank to the sump, you will have to have an overflow. This consists of a box that hangs on the inside of the main tank. The top edge of the box has notches cut on the front and sides. You also have another box that hangs on the outside of the main tank. Connecting these two is a U tube. Water flows into the inside box and, via the U tube which acts as a siphon, into the outside box. The outside box has the line going to the sump coming out of the bottom. When the water level in the tank drops below the level of the inside box, the flow stops. This is how you keep from draining the whole tank into the floor when the return pump quits. If you just put a siphon into the main tank, you'd lose a lot of water if you had a pump failure. Also, with the overflow, if the return pump starts back up (in theory) the siphon will start to flow again which will keep the main tank from running over. I'll try to put a diagram on here that illustrates the way this works, but you've seen my artwork so no promises. Anyway, as I said in the previous post, the return pump is trying to overfill the tank. The water spills over into the overflow instead of your floor.
Now...the skimmer. You will probably have about 6" of water in the sump so this kinda rules out an air driven CC skimmer. You'll need a venturi type with a pump. Same kind of pump as the return pump. The skimmer sits in the sump with it's pump submerged. As the water flows up into the skimmer, the venturi draws air through a tube and mixes it with the water. Instant bubbles. There will be an outflow line (or lines) below the collection cup where the water will spill back into the sump. If you look at the Berlin brand of skimmer, you'll see what I'm talking about. With all this stuff in the sump, I'm not sure you are going to have room for a refugium. The sump needs to have high water flow...in this case, about 1000 gph. The refuge needs a much slower flow. Going to be hard to separate them in the amount of space we have to work with. However, you could put another tank or container (it doesn't have to be an aquarium) above the sump. You would use a powerhead to pump water from the sump up to the refugium and let it gravity return to the sump...preferably close to the return pump intake. The carbon bag just needs to be somewhere that water will have to flow through it. OK, it won't let me upload the diagram of the overflow or the sump/refuge. Maybe the server move has something to do with it. Maybe the above will make some sense.
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Old 12-02-2002, 10:05 AM   #5
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Thanks for your help Loganj!
It does make sense to me....and the part about not putting the water all over the floor is the most important part (to me at least). Nothing worse than getting up in the morning to a flood!
It might be better for me then to separate the sump and refugium which I can do. Keep them on a completely separated system. The only thing I can use for the refuge is a 5g though.....
Oh yeah, what size tubing is going to be needed for this project?
Thanks again for being so patient!!

BTW, I think your drawing turned out just fine!
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Old 12-03-2002, 09:11 AM   #6
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2nd try

Ok, I'm gonna try again now that the server has settled down some. As to the tubing, I don't know all the flow ratings of diferent sizes. I would match the tubing size to the fittings on my pump and overflow ie if the overflow has a 1" fitting in the bottom, I'd run at least 1" tubing.
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