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Old 03-29-2005, 07:54 PM   #1
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New Here and to Tanks

Just wanted to say hello and ask a few questions (Great site and great people on here by the way) And sorry this is so long. Ok, I was initially going to setup a FW tank, but just love the color of SW fish so am heading in that direction, and would like to start with a FOWLR and gradually build it into a Reef tank

I have been searching around here for a couple of days with some confusion on sump, skimmer, PH setups for the larger tanks. I feel I need to research and learn a lot more about larger tanks and setting up a sump, PHs, Skimmers, and such before going all out. I was at my LFS and they said a sump was not neccasary, but from I found on here it would be the optimal setup. So my research will go on.

So now to my questions:

1. I was given a 10 gal. tank and was wondering if I should
(A) start with the small 10 gal SW setup and no sump (Start my education with this) Then start gradually buying and setting up a larger 55-90 gal.
(B) get a 55 gal starter tank and use the 10 gal as a sump setup (Not sure if 10 gal is large enough for a sump for a 55 gal tank.

2. There are so many products and different setups, I am very confused on what are the basic equipment needed. Is there any basic check list.
(A) what is exactly needed for a 10 gal with no sump. (Budget & Money no object)
(B) What is exactly needed for a 55 gal with a sump (And any diagrams on setting up a sump) (Budget & Money no Object)

I do not mean to make it sound like I want my hand held, but a basic list would be cool for various size/type tanks (There may already be one and I over looked it), then it would give a newbie like me a place to start researching brands and prices for the listed must have equipment.

Last question for now then i'll leave you all alone for the day, my wife really enjoys the look of lionfish and would like to get 1 when we setup a larger tank. I did a search on here after my LFS got me scared of them, but could not find what I was looking for. I was told that you can possibly die from a lionfish sting. I have three kids ranging from 5-12 and would be worried at this point. What are the real chances of A. someone getting stung by one B. Of someone actually dying if stung?

Whew, very sorry so long, but been sitting here every day for a few hours for the past few days and my head is filled with so many ?????

Thanks,
Rob
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Old 03-29-2005, 08:20 PM   #2
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I wouldn't waste time with setting upa ten gallon. I did this and ended up spending more a month later to move into a bigger tank and used the 10 gallon as a sump. The reason it is difficult in a 10 gal was the amount of water is so quick to change the parameters. Think about 40 wats of lights sitting on 10 gallons of water, the evaporation was about 1/2 gallon a day. That caused my Gravity to be out of wack after a couple of weeks, and I never got the tank to go below 82 degrees after it warmed up to 60 outside, so I can't imagine how bad it will be when its 100 in august. IT was a never ending struggle to keep it stable. I would go ahead with something like a 40 breeder. The reason being you don't have to have the most expensive lights to penitrate a 16 in deep tank. A 55 is 20" deep so your lights would have to be much stronger to effectively go those extra 4 inches.....Just MY 2 CENTS
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Old 03-29-2005, 10:27 PM   #3
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I second tinman.
A ten is just to small. I started with a 29gal and wish I would have started with
a 55-75 gal. I had my 29 set up for 3 mo and then it became a sump for my 58gal.
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Old 03-29-2005, 10:42 PM   #4
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Thanks for the info. Somone just posted there equipment list for a 55 gal. I will watch for responses and continue to research. I finally was able to search out through the forums a link to a website with some sump diagrams and some some measurments. It looks like the 10 gal tank may even be 2 small for a sump on a 55-75 gal also.

I see that the skimmer, pump, heater can go into the sump, but do the power heads sit in the tank or the sump. I am assuming that the sit in the tank to move water.

Thanks again,
Rob
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Old 03-29-2005, 11:22 PM   #5
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power heads are meant for water flow in the tank, but I have see some people using
large power heads for sump pumps. The bigger the sump the better off you will be the ten gal might be ok if you just want a skimmer/heater but I would go to a 29gal or bigger if you want a refuge and dsb
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Old 03-29-2005, 11:44 PM   #6
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Here is the equipment I have so far for my 55g I am setting up:

DIY w/d filter in a tubberware sump (20g or so)
Mag 7 sump return pump
Maxi-Jet 1200 PH
Instant ocean Hydrometer
150 watt Pro-Heat heater
150 Ebo-Jager heater
2 thermometers (1 in sump, 1 in tank)
The lights that the tank came with.

I will be getting an AquaC Urchin in sump protein skimmer, ls direct from the ocean, and 40lbs of lr from liverocks.com soon. Also a DIY PC lighting strip soon. HTH.
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55g cycled. 15g sump, refugium, lr rubble, mag 7, Maxi-Jet 1200. 36lbs hirocks.com, 20# keys 20# gulf lr.com to arrive on Wensday!

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Old 03-30-2005, 12:32 AM   #7
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I'd keep the 10 gal for your QT tank and go for a bigger tank and sump. As you read you find the more water the slower the changes. As to the lionfish yes they are venomous, describe as more painful then a bee sting. The venomous spines are located in the fins. They are beautiful fish but they are messy eaters (limits the number of fish) and will limit the types of fish can have in the tank.
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Old 03-30-2005, 10:08 PM   #8
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Ok the more I research and learn, and boy is there a lot to learn......I am finding that the fish a am researching that have some fun characters and have the look I like are larger fish (Puffers, wrasses, cowfish etc.) So I have decided to purchase a 90 gal tank intead of a 55 gal. My FOWLR tank list so far is like this:

To Start --Everything in tank
90 gal (Drilled for Sump)
4 maxijet 1200 PHs (2 front/top of tank, 2 back/bottom of tank)
3 150w heaters (2 in tank and one for replacement water heating and backup incase one in tank goes out)
HOB/sump combo Skimmer (I thought I seen a brand that can be used for both)
Marineland Emporer 400 Filter (Until I reach 100 pds LR)
LR
LS/Dry Sand Mix Deep Base

Eventually--Build and utilize a sump/refugium
mag 7 pump
move skimmer to sump
move heaters to sump
Remove emperor filter system.

Does this all sound acceptable?

Now as my fish list-- The LFS after I mentioned I want a Dogface Puffer, helped me put together this list, but I am thinking it is a bit much if I keep the 90 gal. However I am also thinking if I get all of them as juveniles and I eventually go to a larger 125G FOWLR and switch the 90 into a Reef tank it may all work out.

1-Dogface Puffer
1-Porcupine Puffer
1-Snowflake Eel
1- Wrasse
1-? (Cowfish\or other, not sure what else may be OK)

Now to me the Dogface and Snowflake are the most important, so if I were to alter what list would some of you recommend with these 2 fish.

Remember (Besides for the eel) I am looking for fish that people find to have a fun character about them and are active.

I hope I am heading in the general right direction....

once again sorry if so long,
Rob
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Old 03-30-2005, 11:13 PM   #9
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I think you spending money you don't need too. Why get the filter and the HOB Skimmer/sump if your going to remove them anyway. A sump is just a container if you don't want to buy another new tank look for a used tank in the paper or use a plastic tub (it's only temporary and you need one anyway).
I would get two heaters, skip the third for now. If one eventually goes bad then replace it.
Skip the live sand (waste of money) tropical beach sand from a home improvement store. Make sure its tropical beach sand.
Definitely some live rock but the rest I would get base rock (it will become live rock in your tank). www.hirocks.com sells 60 lbs for $85 dollars (that with delivery). So 40 lbs of LR and you have your 100 lbs. and you saved a ton of money. It just takes time for algae to grow. But isn't the fun in watching the changes.
Not sure about the number of fish. Check the adult sizes on www.liveaquaria.com then apply the 1 inch of fish per 3 gallons rule (except the eel, eels don't make as much waste for there length as other fish).
With the eel your going to need a good cover.
And with your fish selection light is only for you to view the fish so you cant use no fluorescent.
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Old 03-31-2005, 12:04 AM   #10
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I will check out the hirocks.com, that sounds like a great way to save some bucks. I also see what your saying about the filter and skimmer, however the skimmer would not be removed, just moved down to the sump. I was thinking the filter would be a good thing until I get the amount of LR needed to properly do it's filtering.

I appreciate the responses,
Rob
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