New tank. High ammonia

[force of habit]

Set up my tank on 10/2203. 55 gal wet/dry filter. added a flame angel fish and a orangetail blue damselfish on10/23/03. everything was good until yesterday 10/28/03. I got an ammonia reading of 4 ppm. I understand from the reading I've done this is to be expected. I did a 25% water change. My concern is that this morning 10/29/03 I still have an ammonia reading of 4ppm. Is this normal? Should I do another water change or hold off? Thanks for all input. Larry

 

[Biggen]

Your tank has just begun to cycle and the ammonia will continue to rise until the bacteria in the tank begin to turn it into nitrite. When that happens, nitrite will then rise until bacteria begin to break that down and turn it into nitrate. When both ammonia and nitrite are at zero, you should then begin stocking the tank.

If I were you, I would at least take back the angel and keep doing water changes in order to get that ammonia down to around 1-2 ppm. The damselfish may well survive since these fish are pretty hardy, but only if you can get the ammonia level down a big.

 

[Biggen]

Oh, btw, do you have live rock in the tank, and if so, was it cured before it was put in?

What kind of filtration are you using if not using live rock?

 

[force of habit]

I use a wet /dry filter. I have about 10 lbs or live rock and 30 pounds(dry when purchased) of base rock. It was cured when I got it I belive. I did nothing further to it orther than rise it when I set up

 

[MACATUA]

Get the flame angel out and take it back to the LFS. Maybe they will hold it for you. The cycle, as Biggen said, could last anywhere form 3-8 weeks, and the angel will not make it that long. They may hold it for you until you get the tank cycled.

Check out the articles section on cycling a new tank and it should give you an idea of what to expect from a cycle. Any other questions, feel free to ask!

 

[force of habit]

I will try to find a place for the angel. how much and how often should I do water changes.

 

[Flipper]

I second the removal of the Flame Angel. He will likely not survive the cycle.

 

[Biggen]

how much and how often should I do water changes.

In your situation, there really isn't a rule. You really can't hurt anything doing water changes as long as the pH, temp, and salinity are matched as close as possible with the main tank. What you could shoot for is to try and bring the ammonia down to around 1-2 ppm. 4ppm is high even for a damsel.

 

[cleantank]

Just a point of concern, did your LFS know you were just starting to cycle, and sold you the flame anyway??? Or did they not know??? If they knew and told you the flame was ok for this situation, thats a problem

 

[force of habit]

I live 60 miles from Drs. Foster & Smith. So I drove up there figuring this was a good place to start my quest for knowledge on the subject. I guess I was wrong! I have called them and they say the dwarf angel will be ok. I am not sure I belive this. Problem two is I did state this was a new tank setup and that the main inhabitant was to be a lionfish. well I guess Dan(orangetail damselfish) will be food. I am not happy with these problems. I have called both stores in town and neither one will hold my angel for me. I guess I will change the water daily and hope for the best for Max & Dan. One last thing. I started using biozyme for the first two days. When I went to Fosters & Smith the lady told me not to use anything unnatural. Today when I called I talked to a different lady who told me I should defiantly use it as well as an ammonia reducer. I'm confused. Thanks for all the advice. Larry

 

[MACATUA]

Well, for a good natural cycle to occur, you don't want to add any unnatural things. Bacteria will colonize and eat the ammonia on its own. Best case may be to see if anyone on here is close to you, maybe they can hold the fish. I don't know what to do. The Flame will definatly not make it, and the chances for the damsel are pretty slim also. Maybe better with daily water changes.

As far as Drs. Foster and Smith, I stopped taking their advice when they suggested you can fit the following in a 46g bowfront:

6 green chromis
1 Kauderns Cardinal
3 Ocellaris Clowns
1 Six Line Wrasse
1 Psuedochromis

and the 2 weeks later

1 yellow tang
1 flame hawk
1 coral beauty
3 carpenters wrasse
1 algae blenny

I swear it is in the paper catalgue like that. So I would take the advice from the site rather than Drs. Foster and Smith. They have nice stuff, but greed has definatly taken over for them.

 

[Biggen]

I know you said that none of the stores would hold the angel for you, but would any take it for store credit? I know my fish store will allow me to trade livestock in for credit as long as what I am trading in is healthy...

If that doesn't work, you will just need to monitor your ammonia as close as possible and do water changes when it gets too high. You did say that you have some cured LR in the system so that will help a little. At the very least it will speed along the process since the bacteria is already in your system and you are not starting from scratch.

 

[force of habit]

Made the water change(25%). How long do I need to wait to take another ammonia test? If it is still high when can I do another water change?

 

[MACATUA]

Daily I would say.