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Old 04-16-2013, 12:58 PM   #1
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New-used 125g - transfer -need advice

Ok, first let me say "I was told so". I have had a 55g Cichlid tank for years. Back in January I decided I wanted to delve into SW because tanks are just so darn addicting. I got a great deal on a 45g with stand so I jumped on it. It's been up and running since January. This is what I have,

60lbs live sand
40lbs live rock
20lbs base rock
HOB filter 400gph
power head 1300gph
power head 750gph
skimmer
heater
T5 lights
Percula clowns (4)
Kohl Tang
Flame Angel
Hippo Tang
Brittle Star Fish
Green and Red Emerald Crab
Rose tip Anemone
Hairy Mushroom Leather
Gonipora
various other zoa's and leather frags (given to me)
Shrimp (4)
Hermit crabs
Snails

Everything is thriving and doing great so far. Amonia=0, Nitrites=0, Nitrates=0, Salinity 1.025, PH 8.2. I do pwc once a week and I use ro/di water (I need to invest in a unit).

So here comes the "I was told so" part. I am getting a 125g tank this weekend. I was told to go bigger to start with and I didn't listen. I was afraid I would mess everything up.

I am getting the tank, stand, 4 T-5 (double light) fixtures, power heads, skimmer, canister pump filter, about 60lbs of live rock (no longer live) and other misc stuff.

Advice on the best way to set the new tank up as I will be transfering my 45g(or at least part of it) over to the 125g. Sump vs Canister vs HOB, do I need a refugium, etc? Still new to it and would like expert advice.

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Old 04-16-2013, 03:00 PM   #2
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Dont use a Refugium they are more harm then good. Get a sump going on the 125 because a HOB filter or canister filter is just not needed in the SW hobby and with few exceptions have no place in the hobby. They get packed full of waste and just create huge amounts of Phosphates and Nitrates.

Sumps can be challenging because its hard for a person to know what they really need in a sump. If I was you I would go with a super simple sump with a place for a Filter sock (only use a filter sock if you are planning on changing it or cleaning it ever 2-3 days.) A place for your skimmer that will have a constent water level regardless of how much evaporation happens, and then a double baffle to keep micro bubbles out of the Return pump section.

As far as making the transfer...well i have done this a few times and each time I have learned a little something.

#1 keeping both tanks up is ideal till you can transfer everything.

#2 Get the 125 up and running with all the stuff you got from him

#3 Dont transfer ANY sand into the new 125g buy all new sand if you want sand in the tank. (Anyone who tells you oh its fine just wash it and put it in doesnt know what they are talking about lol)

#4 Move about 20 lbs of your rock in your current tank over to the new tank. It doesnt matter if its "Live rock" or "base rock" all your rock is now live beings its in a cycled tank, All live rock means is it has an "Established" Benefical Bactria Colony.

#5 Put rock in first then new sand (if you want information on running the tank without sand let me know I have lots of good stuff about that and its what I do with all my tank)

#6 Dose the tank up to 4ppm ammonia (use pure ammonia from the store or add a few raw shrimp in a net)

#7 Test the tank till you get your Ammonia Spike, Nitrite Spike, Nitrate Spike. Ones this happens Dose the tank to 2ppm ammonia and if it converts it in 24hrs you are good to go.

#6 add two fish at a time and wait a week

#7 when all your fish are moved then move over your live rock form the other tank.

#8 When you move all your rock take a bucket of tank water from your tank and give them a good rinse you want to remove as much detris from the rocks as possible before moving them into the new tank.

#9 Dont buy a sump with Bio Balls or a Trickle Filter they are out of date and Nitrate Factories

#10 QT EVERY SINGLE FISH YOU BUY - Untill recently I have thought bah whatever who needs to qt fish. I was foolish. I just lost 900$ in fish due to Marine Velvet and this would of never happened if I would of just QT the fish for a few weeks. Also another reason is the last thing you want to do is to have to try and catch a sick fish in a 125g tank you will have to remove all your rock in order to get to them.

Questions
What kind of skimmer is it?
is the tank drilled/Have overflows?
Do you plan on a reef?
Do you mean theres two fixtures that cover 1/2 the tank each or is there two full lenght t5ho fixtures so that you have 4 bulbs over the whole system?

Also I would really suggest not using that old live rock if you dont plan on cooking it. and for the time/cost/trouble of cooking rock I would just replace the 60lbs. The rock will be PACKED full of Phosphates that will leech back into the tank and cause algae issues.

If you have any questions about what I said feel free to ask I will check back in if I see an updated post

have fun, take it slow, and enjoy the build!
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Old 04-16-2013, 03:15 PM   #3
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Heres a sump picture for you I just drew up
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Old 04-16-2013, 03:37 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by CleverBs View Post
Dont use a Refugium they are more harm then good. Get a sump going on the 125 because a HOB filter or canister filter is just not needed in the SW hobby and with few exceptions have no place in the hobby. They get packed full of waste and just create huge amounts of Phosphates and Nitrates.

Sumps can be challenging because its hard for a person to know what they really need in a sump. If I was you I would go with a super simple sump with a place for a Filter sock (only use a filter sock if you are planning on changing it or cleaning it ever 2-3 days.) A place for your skimmer that will have a constent water level regardless of how much evaporation happens, and then a double baffle to keep micro bubbles out of the Return pump section.

As far as making the transfer...well i have done this a few times and each time I have learned a little something.

#1 keeping both tanks up is ideal till you can transfer everything.

#2 Get the 125 up and running with all the stuff you got from him

#3 Dont transfer ANY sand into the new 125g buy all new sand if you want sand in the tank. (Anyone who tells you oh its fine just wash it and put it in doesnt know what they are talking about lol)

#4 Move about 20 lbs of your rock in your current tank over to the new tank. It doesnt matter if its "Live rock" or "base rock" all your rock is now live beings its in a cycled tank, All live rock means is it has an "Established" Benefical Bactria Colony.

#5 Put rock in first then new sand (if you want information on running the tank without sand let me know I have lots of good stuff about that and its what I do with all my tank)

#6 Dose the tank up to 4ppm ammonia (use pure ammonia from the store or add a few raw shrimp in a net)

#7 Test the tank till you get your Ammonia Spike, Nitrite Spike, Nitrate Spike. Ones this happens Dose the tank to 2ppm ammonia and if it converts it in 24hrs you are good to go.

#6 add two fish at a time and wait a week

#7 when all your fish are moved then move over your live rock form the other tank.

#8 When you move all your rock take a bucket of tank water from your tank and give them a good rinse you want to remove as much detris from the rocks as possible before moving them into the new tank.

#9 Dont buy a sump with Bio Balls or a Trickle Filter they are out of date and Nitrate Factories

#10 QT EVERY SINGLE FISH YOU BUY - Untill recently I have thought bah whatever who needs to qt fish. I was foolish. I just lost 900$ in fish due to Marine Velvet and this would of never happened if I would of just QT the fish for a few weeks. Also another reason is the last thing you want to do is to have to try and catch a sick fish in a 125g tank you will have to remove all your rock in order to get to them.

Questions
What kind of skimmer is it?
is the tank drilled/Have overflows?
Do you plan on a reef?
Do you mean theres two fixtures that cover 1/2 the tank each or is there two full lenght t5ho fixtures so that you have 4 bulbs over the whole system?

Also I would really suggest not using that old live rock if you dont plan on cooking it. and for the time/cost/trouble of cooking rock I would just replace the 60lbs. The rock will be PACKED full of Phosphates that will leech back into the tank and cause algae issues.

If you have any questions about what I said feel free to ask I will check back in if I see an updated post

have fun, take it slow, and enjoy the build!

Thanks for the information. Lets see if I can address

#1 I plan on keeping the 45g up and running. Possibly a reef tank or future QT tank or both.

#3 I have to buy new sand because all I have is whats in my 45g

#4 Good to know all the rock is considered "live rock" now

#6 I'm not sure what you mean? Please explain. On my 45 I put in the ls, lr, and shrimp and let it cycle. After several weeks and checking levels, I added a couple of clowns and watched my levels. I added two more clowns after a few more weeks along with a bottle of bacteria just to be on the safe side. I then waited a few more weeks before adding the protein skimmer and the Kohl Tang.

#7 Again dose the tank to 2ppm ammonia?

#9 I know absolutely nothing about sumps other than they go below your aquarium and are typically used with drilled tanks, which this tank is not drilled. What do you suggest?

#10 I understand the importance of the QT tank at this point. QT fish for how long?

Don't know what kind of skimmer it is yet. I would like some reefs (looks plain without imo). There are four fixtures with two bulbs in each fixture. Set up right now with four white and four blue for a total of eight bulbs.

What do you mean cooking the old rock? It has been out of water for about a month. I was told by the lfs and others that the any algae and aptasia would be dead and a non-factor now. Is it any different at this point then new base rock?

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Old 04-16-2013, 03:40 PM   #5
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Heres a sump picture for you I just drew up
Thanks, the other problem I have is that the stand has a door on either end with the middle portion being shelving. Not sure where I will put a sump?
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Old 04-16-2013, 03:52 PM   #6
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#6 I'm not sure what you mean? Please explain. On my 45 I put in the ls, lr, and shrimp and let it cycle. After several weeks and checking levels, I added a couple of clowns and watched my levels. I added two more clowns after a few more weeks along with a bottle of bacteria just to be on the safe side. I then waited a few more weeks before adding the protein skimmer and the Kohl Tang.
I just mean you can put a few raw shrimp in the tank, I put them in a net so as they decompose they are contained and not rotting in the tank after. making sure your ammonia is at 4ppm will insure you have the proper bacterial filter

#7 Again dose the tank to 2ppm ammonia?
Yes this way you can make sure that your tank in converting ammonia the way it should.


#9 I know absolutely nothing about sumps other than they go below your aquarium and are typically used with drilled tanks, which this tank is not drilled. What do you suggest?
I am going to address your stand issue and sump issue in this one. You can take the tank to the LFS and have them drill it for you. You can do something simple or complex. Simple is just a drain on each end of the tank on the back wall and a return hole in the middle. Very easy Ill give you a link to my build that I did this with.
For the stand I would buy a new one. I cant Imagain a 125g Without a sump honestly, To me that is a nightmare because you wont be able to run a HOB skimmer thats large enough to handle that kind of water volume. If you want coral you are going to need to drill the tank and add a sump. Honestly I would do it know other way and doing so without it is just asking for huge issues down the raod and you are going to have to tare the whole thing down and get it drilled and instal a sump. I would just get a new stand thats made for SW tank where its just open underneath.

#10 I understand the importance of the QT tank at this point. QT fish for how long?
4 weeks if you dont see signs of illness


Don't know what kind of skimmer it is yet. I would like some reefs (looks plain without imo). There are four fixtures with two bulbs in each fixture. Set up right now with four white and four blue for a total of eight bulbs.
When you have the cash upgrade to LED, the cost of light bulbs for t5ho fixtures is obsured and you have to replace them every year. 20$ a bulb for good bulbs that will give your corals proper light thats 160$ a year in bulbs, for 160$ you can buy a dimmible LED fixture that will last you 7 years and cost 1/8th the amount in electricity.

What do you mean cooking the old rock? It has been out of water for about a month. I was told by the lfs and others that the any algae and aptasia would be dead and a non-factor now. Is it any different at this point then new base rock?
Yes everything is dead and thats exactly the issue, When you put a rock that was full of live things such as worms, algae, bacteria, who knows what else. when you put this into your tank water all that dead stuff is going to start to rot in the tank and the only thing rotting death does is causes algae issues. Cooking rock is very complex but a quick explination is you put it in a big tub of salt water and let it rot in a controled inviorment doing huge water changes on it every few days to remove the phosphates. It takes months to do it properly and costs a lot in salt.

Go all out and create a true SW tank on this build. Take your time and learn everything as you go. Tackle on thing at a time. The good thing is you have no rush beings you have the other tank up and running.

First thing I would do is lean about drilled tanks and sumps. It seems difficult but it is really easy.
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Old 04-16-2013, 04:10 PM   #7
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#9 I know absolutely nothing about sumps other than they go below your aquarium and are typically used with drilled tanks, which this tank is not drilled. What do you suggest?
I am going to address your stand issue and sump issue in this one. You can take the tank to the LFS and have them drill it for you. You can do something simple or complex. Simple is just a drain on each end of the tank on the back wall and a return hole in the middle. Very easy Ill give you a link to my build that I did this with.
For the stand I would buy a new one. I cant Imagain a 125g Without a sump honestly, To me that is a nightmare because you wont be able to run a HOB skimmer thats large enough to handle that kind of water volume. If you want coral you are going to need to drill the tank and add a sump. Honestly I would do it know other way and doing so without it is just asking for huge issues down the raod and you are going to have to tare the whole thing down and get it drilled and instal a sump. I would just get a new stand thats made for SW tank where its just open underneath.

None of our lfs are willing to drill tanks. Is there anywhere else that would do it? I guess I need to do some research on that.
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Old 04-16-2013, 04:12 PM   #8
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Very easy Ill give you a link to my build that I did this with.

Did I miss the link?
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Old 04-16-2013, 04:36 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Hart62 View Post
#9 I know absolutely nothing about sumps other than they go below your aquarium and are typically used with drilled tanks, which this tank is not drilled. What do you suggest?
I am going to address your stand issue and sump issue in this one. You can take the tank to the LFS and have them drill it for you. You can do something simple or complex. Simple is just a drain on each end of the tank on the back wall and a return hole in the middle. Very easy Ill give you a link to my build that I did this with.
For the stand I would buy a new one. I cant Imagain a 125g Without a sump honestly, To me that is a nightmare because you wont be able to run a HOB skimmer thats large enough to handle that kind of water volume. If you want coral you are going to need to drill the tank and add a sump. Honestly I would do it know other way and doing so without it is just asking for huge issues down the raod and you are going to have to tare the whole thing down and get it drilled and instal a sump. I would just get a new stand thats made for SW tank where its just open underneath.

None of our lfs are willing to drill tanks. Is there anywhere else that would do it? I guess I need to do some research on that.
Sure you can drill it yourself. There are some good guides out there. Beings you only need to drill 3 holes you can get one of the cheaper drill bits. The really expensive ones last longer but theres no need for that.

Go to Glass-Holes.com they have lots of good info on drilling tanks and dont be afraid its not that bad. Also I have seen people drill peices of plastic first as a template and clamp it to the tank to insure the drill bit doesnt move. ill send you a link to that as well.
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Old 04-16-2013, 04:37 PM   #10
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Heres the one for drilling the holes, its the 3rd post down.
The Build 40 breeder SPS floating tank! - Page 7 - The Reef Tank

Click on the 75G SPS Bare Bottom Reef link in my signiture to see how my tank is plumbed and how I made my sump.
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