Nitrites Not changing?

[Kurt_Nelson]

Doesnt that then become 40ppm of nitrite and then 40ppm of nitrate?

No. It doesn't. You're thinking this waaaaay toooo much. As someone earlier said, cycling isn't rocket science. You can make it into that, but it doesn't need to be.

I'm going to try this one more time...

Your nitrites, in reality, ARE decreasing. But just as fast as the bacteria is converting the nitrites to nitrates, your other bacteria are converting the ammonia to nitrites. You are converting nitrites to nitrates, but because of the constant addition of ammonia, you're replenishing those nitrites as fast as you're eliminating them. The bacteria that convert nitrites to nitrates just haven't gotten over that population hump yet to start decreasing them. You say you're studying electrical engineering... read up on feedback loops and you'll get a sense of what's going on.

The amount of ammonia you've put in that tank is FAR more than folks normally put in during cycling. Way more. So don't expect your cycle to behave like everyone else's. It's going to take a while - assuming you stop putting stuff in your tank to create even more ammonia.

Yes... all salts claim to be phosphate free and nitrate free. They aren't. Granted, the amounts in there aren't much, and may not even be measurable depending on your test kits, but it's in there. For example, Reef Crystals has between 0.2-0.5ppm nitrates in it. All living things need phosphates to some extent, so in that respect it's just one of the hundreds of "essential elements" that is in your salt mix. Copper is a big no-no in reef tanks too... but you'll find minute amounts of copper in salt mixes because again... it's an essential element for life.

This isn't going to fix itself in a matter of days. Yes.. your nitrates are coming from your ammonia and nitrites. And you're going to continue to get more and more. And until you stop dumping junk in the tank, (including food), you'll just keep seeing the levels go higher and higher.

 

[mrg02d]

Hello,
Lots of good points, especially with the feedback loop. But remember, feedback loops need to be tuned.

I dont think I put in more ammonia than most, as I have read numerous threads about the constant addition of ammonia (keeping the readings at 5ppm or so) until the nitrites actually go to zero. I do see the problems with this now as pointed out by you. For my situation, I have a small tank and will not need a huge bacteria population to get by with. I did add the fish food yesterday, but no ammonia spike from it.

Good news though! I just tested my nitrite levels for the night and they went from 2ppm this afternoon to 0.25ppm! Thats a huge jump, no? Its been maybe 11 hours since I tested and I was dead sure it was purple then. Now it is on the money at 0.25ppm with the API saltwater test.

So if tomorrow the nitrite is zero, is it safe to say this tank is cycled? Might it be wise to test my tank to make sure its cycled? Such a test could be: Add ammonia until I get 0.5ppm or so. Wait for nitrites to rise a bit, and then watch to make sure they both quickly go back to zero? (Within the day).

I know I am a pain! Thanks for dealing with me!

Matt

 

[thincat]

I think the best way would be to wait a day and test again to see if you are still at 0....

 

[Mystery]

It seems to me that you are overdoing the ammonia a bit.

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

...But remember, feedback loops need to be tuned.

EXACTLY... that's my point. That's what is going on in your tank. It is tuning itself. The constant addition of ammonia only interferes with the process. But I'll stop beating that dead horse.

Regarding nitrites... when I cycled my tank, when nitrites started to decrease they fell like a rock - nothing like the ammonia. One day it was there, the next it was nearly gone. Sounds like that may be the case in your tank too. I agree with thincat though... it won't hurt to wait a couple days and make sure things are really at zero.

Don't be in a hurry to add critters - you still have a ton of nitrates to get rid of. And the easiest way to do that is to do massive water changes (like 75%) when there isn't anything alive in there. If you wait to do the water changes until after you put critters in there, you'll have to be more careful in matching the new water with the old. Without critters, it really doesn't matter as long as it's close to the same temp.

 

[mrg02d]

Hello,
Sure enough, everything (except nitrates) are at zero. On the money zero too. (No in-between colors).

I will do a huge water change tomorrow. (As long as everything is still at zero). I am thinking 90% water change. (Might as well start the tank off with nearly no nitrates right?) And maybe get some animals in a few days after I call around town and look at them first.

Is there an easy way to predict the bioload put on a system? I wont have any large animals, and will feed sparingly, but how do clowns and hermits crap?

I will add animals slowly and watch the ammonia levels as I add, but would two clowns to start (seems best to get two at the same time rather than one now, and then one later and have them fight) be a bad idea for a newly cycled tank? How about hermits? I will likely have to supplement feed the crabs, as there is only a tiny bit of algae in my tank. (Still using DI water).

I know that there isnt a formula for how much an animal will poo, but is there a general guideline?

Thanks guys!
Matt

 

[Mystery]

Some are poopier than others . I like to open with a nice big apple snail or pleco to make sure things keep ticking over.

 

[thincat]

Mr.G, Algae eating fish like tangs will put out more waste then other fish. The main thing is you have to go slow. You also have to figure on the "Adult" size of the fish if you go by inches per gallon. As far as snails and such, a bunch won't hurt your system.

 

[mrg02d]

Ahh yes, the inch per gallon rule. I recall seeing that in a few threads, but everyone seems to have a different opinion. You guys seem to know what your doing. So, what do you suggest I use for the inch per gallon? (Considering this is a newly cycled tank).

I will stick to smaller fish. Id love a tang, but read enough to know to stay away from them. (20 gallon tank minus a 2in sand bed and 15 lbs of live rock).

Thanks!
Matt