Nitrogen cycle

[rdnelson99]

Well you have the two most important things down pat. You care about the animals you keep and you know enough to ask questions. The rest is easy and just takes some time. As you read posts and talk to people at lfs or at local reef clubs, you will come to know who you can trust and who you can't. Not all lfs are looking out for you or the animals but look out for the bottom line. Others are great. I have one local lfs who is fantastic for that reason. She gives me great advice. I also take part in our local reef club and all of those people are fantastic. Good luck. I know you will have a great and happy tank soon.

 

[ShaunV]

Ok. Just got back from my LFS. He is unclear as to why the shrimp died. He tested the water and said everything looks fine. He claims that my tank is already cycled because of the LR and LS.

I told him I was setting up a QT tank and he informed me that I will not need to cycle this tank. Just to keep salinity, ph and temp the same as my other tank. This seems really bizarre to me. When I put a fish in the QT won't it release ammonia, causing my nitrites to rise and then the nitrates to rise. It seems like if I followed his logic, then I would be cycling the tank using the fish. This is something I don't think I should do. What I thought needed to happen is that I start the QT with ammonia and get the cycle going before I put fish in it. I am following the SW article on the fishless cycle. This seems necessary to me. Am I accurate in thinking so? Or is the FLS owner right in that. Do not need to cycle to QT?

 

[rdnelson99]

First, in the defense of the LFS I would say he is right to a degree but I would not go that way. You can do as he says but there is a step missing. If you do that you would have to do constant water changes to rid the QT of ammonia, nitrite and nitrate so it will not harm the fish. The big drawback is that instead of constantly converting the ammonia and nitrite whenever ANY is present, it will build up until you do a water change each time. That is not healthy for the livestock.

Here is what I would do if I were in your shoes. Since you have no livestock at the moment don't worry about the QT yet. Verify that the DT has cycled by dosing a bit of ammonia and checking it 24 hours later. If all you see is Nitrate, you are cycled. Next, since you do not have a sump, I would pick a small piece of rock that you will use for your QT. It can be moved back and forth between the DT to QT whenever you need to set up the QT. As long as you don't need to medicate the QT you can always put that rock back in the display when you are done with the QT of fish purchase. That is my story and I am sticking too it.

 

[Reeffanman]

Instead of using a piece of LR get a cheap job filter and that way when your done with the qt you can throw away the filter media. Replace with new media and hang back on the display so it is cycled and ready to go next time you need the qt. And it wouldn't hurt to use a qt even for your first fish to help keep parasites out of display.

 

[ShaunV]

Thank you both for your advice. We have started the QT and are doing the fishless cycle using ammonia. We picked up a filter sponge to use in the QT. we will also get a rock to place in there too. We are intending to have the QT set up all the time so that we are always ready for it.m from what I have read, the fish, inverts, etc should be quarantined for 3-4 weeks. Since we are planning on adding the items to our tank slowly, we think it would be a good idea to have the QT available at all times. At least for now.

 

[Reeffanman]

It's not necessary to keep the qt tank running it you can just run the sponge on the display till the qt is needed. There is very little beneficial bacteria in the water it is mostly in the filter, so you can take a filter off the display with fresh water and qt is fully cycled. Saves having to run a heater of even keep up maintaing a qt with nothing in it. I keep a few sponges in my sump just in case of an emergency .... Or a spontaneous purchase at the Lfs.

I can get a qt up and running in 10 mins

 

[ShaunV]

Ok. Thanks. We don't have a filter or sump running on our DT, just bio filtration right now. We will get a protein skimmer when we get into corals. Right now we are just trying to make sure our display tank is cycled, and our qt is ready for our first inhabitants. We picked up a LR today and put it in the qt to provide bacteria. As I placed the rock in, out fell a shell with a dwarf yellow tip hermit. We got him out of the qt because the ammonia is high. After inspecting for bugs, we placed him in our DT with dried seaweed. Our algae are not spreading rapidly because we are not running our lights yet. This tank seems cycled, my LFS told me to never add ammonia to the tank because it would be very difficult to get rid of and would kill my live rock. This seems odd to me too. How is adding tiny amounts of pure ammonia any different than when a fish creates ammonia? Won't the ammonia turn to nitrites and then nitrates if there is bacteria in the water? I am trying out the ammonia fishless cycle on the QT. thanks again for your help.

 

[Reeffanman]

Ok. Thanks. We don't have a filter or sump running on our DT, just bio filtration right now. We will get a protein skimmer when we get into corals. Right now we are just trying to make sure our display tank is cycled, and our qt is ready for our first inhabitants. We picked up a LR today and put it in the qt to provide bacteria. As I placed the rock in, out fell a shell with a dwarf yellow tip hermit. We got him out of the qt because the ammonia is high. After inspecting for bugs, we placed him in our DT with dried seaweed. Our algae are not spreading rapidly because we are not running our lights yet. This tank seems cycled, my LFS told me to never add ammonia to the tank because it would be very difficult to get rid of and would kill my live rock. This seems odd to me too. How is adding tiny amounts of pure ammonia any different than when a fish creates ammonia? Won't the ammonia turn to nitrites and then nitrates if there is bacteria in the water? I am trying out the ammonia fishless cycle on the QT. thanks again for your help.

I would still add ammonia, I don't think you should fully trust your Lfs. It is piece of mind knowing for sure. And saves alot of water changes if its not

 

[ShaunV]

Ya, I don't trust my LFS much. That is why everything he tells me that I believe to be wrong, I will post here to double check. I have not done the ammonia in the DT yes, but I did run a test this morning.

Temp 78
Salinity 1.024
Ph 8.1
Alkalinity, 2.9 meq/l
Ammonia 0
Nitrites 0
Nitrates 30

Do you think I need to do a PWC? Or should I just add the ammonia? Also, when you say a small amount of ammonia, do you mean something like 1ml? I have a 20 gallon tank.

 

[Reeffanman]

Dose up to about 4 or 5 ppm ammonia and check 24 hour later and if you are down to 0 you are cycled. If not dose back up and try again when you have no ammonia or nitrites 24 hours later do a 40-50 pwc and then you can safely add fish. No need to pwc till ur done

 

[spoonman]

Add the ammonia in very tiny amounts! I used one cap full on my 75 gallon with 40 gallon sump and it brought it to 4ppm.

 

[rdnelson99]

I agree with spoonman. I used one capful on my 45 and it brought it up to like 10 ppm. Try just a drop or two and then test the ammonia level. Keep adding until it is up to 4 ppm.

 

[Sniperhank]

Im currently dosing ammonia to cycle my 55. I added a cap full yesterday even though i dosed the day before, believing i would be further along in the cycle than i am. I tested hours later and my ammonia test came back bright blue. This was surprising...since there is no blue on the scale for ammonia. Just make sure you test before dosing again or youll have an ammonia tank like i do.

 

[ShaunV]

Ok. Thanks. I started with 1 ml on my 10 gallon QT and that brought me up to 4ppm. I will try my DT next.