Oops - accidently ended up in SW today

[Jimbo7]

Do you have any sort of evidence to support this, besides the fact that your tank is still running?

And your comparison to the ocean makes absolutely no sense. If you have a huge body of water like the ocean, think how much energy it takes or has to lose in order to change temp, even in a small area. Then compare that to a 5 gallon? Here, my cycling tank was swinging from 74ish to 85-90 in the night/day. Can you honestly say that wouldn't have any effect on your inhabitants?

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

Kurt, ask yourself what the make up of nitrite is? Then think about water evaporation. Where do you think no3 will go when attached to water vapor?

Also, water in the ocean changes temps (at reef levels) when the sun goes down, why would a gradual change in temps of say from 78f to 74f ever be of concern with a healthly tank any way?

Never bothered any of my guys and they now reside in my 155gal.

I'm no chemistry major, but last time I read up on that stuff, neither nitrites (no2) or nitrates (no3) evaporated out of the tank. If it did, seems like folks with large evaporation rates from all their high wattage lighting setups wouldn't need all these fancy ways of lowering their nitrates!

Agree that localized temps on reef can vary quite a bit during a day, and a variance between 78 and 74 shouldn't hurt anything. But I'd hate to see someone who has a house that gets down to 60 at night not put a heater in and scratch their head why things aren't doing well when their water is swinging between 60 and 80. All depends on where ya live, I suppose.

 

[ccCapt]

Kurt, ask yourself what the make up of nitrite is? Then think about water evaporation. Where do you think no3 will go when attached to water vapor?

Also, water in the ocean changes temps (at reef levels) when the sun goes down, why would a gradual change in temps of say from 78f to 74f ever be of concern with a healthly tank any way?

Never bothered any of my guys and they now reside in my 155gal.

I'm not Kurt, but that statement caught my eye.
A nitrite ion is comprised of a central nitrogen atom and two oxygen atoms, one of which carries a negative charge. A water molecule (H[SIZE=-1]2[/SIZE]O) is a central hydrogen atom and 2 oxygen atoms. Perhaps you can explain how they "attach" because I never heard of such a thing.

 

[jcarlilesiu]

The amount of mis-information in this thread is startling.

Nitrites and then nitrates are in no way self exporting through out gasing or other methods. Unless there is a means to reduce them, they will continue to build as part of the nitrogen cycle.

Some people mitigate this by installing plants or other life which feeds off nitrate but in a tank as discribed which has no other export method physical removal is essential to maintain healthy levels for the inhabitants.

 

[krap101]

I think alpha is implying that the nitrates/nitrites will get converted by the anaerobic bacteria back into atmospheric nitrogen (N2), which is why there are dsb's. This is one path the nitrogen can take in the ocean. The other path is to be used in photosynthesis by phytoplankton and plants (kind of the same thing )

 

[Alpha_03]

BTW, this as per wikopedia:

Denitrification is a microbially facilitated process of dissimilatory nitrate reduction that may ultimately produce molecular nitrogen (N2) through a series of intermediate gaseous nitrogen oxide products. This respiratory process reduces oxidized forms of nitrogen in response to the oxidation of an electron donor such as organic matter. The preferred nitrogen electron acceptors in order of most to least thermodynamically favorable include: nitrate (NO3−), nitrite (NO2−), nitric oxide (NO), and nitrous oxide (N2O). In terms of the general nitrogen cycle, denitrification completes the cycle by returning N2 to the atmosphere.

 

[logansmomma1228]

BTW, this as per wikopedia:

Denitrification is a microbially facilitated process of dissimilatory nitrate reduction that may ultimately produce molecular nitrogen (N2) through a series of intermediate gaseous nitrogen oxide products. This respiratory process reduces oxidized forms of nitrogen in response to the oxidation of an electron donor such as organic matter. The preferred nitrogen electron acceptors in order of most to least thermodynamically favorable include: nitrate (NO3−), nitrite (NO2−), nitric oxide (NO), and nitrous oxide (N2O). In terms of the general nitrogen cycle, denitrification completes the cycle by returning N2 to the atmosphere.

WIKIPEDIA. ANYONE can edit ANYTHING on that. So you could have just posted that yourself and then quoted it.

 

[krap101]

No it was there before, and you can also check when and from where it is edited

 

[logansmomma1228]

No it was there before, and you can also check when and from where it is edited

thanks. lol. traitor!

 

[krap101]

It's not like we're on some mission anyways... this thread kind of got off topic...

 

[cmor1701d]

Even the Wikipedia article does not imply that evaporation will help with nitrate reduction.

Denitrification is a microbially facilitated process

is quite true. The bacteria that turn NO3 back to N2 live in the anoxic zones (DSB, LR, detrinifying chambers). So NO3 export is achieved by bacteria converting NO3 to N2, PWC's, or macro algae using the nitrate.

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

BTW, this as per wikopedia:

Denitrification is a microbially facilitated process of dissimilatory nitrate reduction that may ultimately produce molecular nitrogen (N2) through a series of intermediate gaseous nitrogen oxide products. This respiratory process reduces oxidized forms of nitrogen in response to the oxidation of an electron donor such as organic matter. The preferred nitrogen electron acceptors in order of most to least thermodynamically favorable include: nitrate (NO3−), nitrite (NO2−), nitric oxide (NO), and nitrous oxide (N2O). In terms of the general nitrogen cycle, denitrification completes the cycle by returning N2 to the atmosphere.

Nothing there I disagree with. A "microbially facilitated process" is not evaporation. Nitrites don't evaporate away... neither do nitrates. Nitrites will be converted by aerobic bacteria to nitrates. And if you have a place for anaerobic bacteria to set up shop, then the nitrates will be converted to nitrogen gas and bubble out of your tank.

The original comment that sparked all this was the implication that the nitrites in a non-cycled, or partially cycled tank weren't an issue because they just evaporated away in time. Agree with some of the others... this thread has gone way off topic. But there are some statements here that I'd hate to see someone down the road stumble across, and follow them blindly.

 

[Alpha_03]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Nitrogen_Cycle.svghttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Nitrogen_Cycle.svg

 

[Aquarium1]

Just curious, so with a DSB one might not have to do as much pwcs as one without one? Also, I'm guessing DSBs should be in a sump most of the time to prevent those bubbles from affecting the fish? Sorry to thread jack just trying to learn.

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

Yeah... that picture pretty much says what several of us are saying. Different kinds of bacteria convert ammonia to nitrites, then nitrites to nitrates, and then nitrates to nitrogen gas. The nitrogen gas out-gasses to atmosphere.

Not really seeing how any of this supports the "nitrites will evaporate out of your aquarium water" statement. Yes... the end product of the nitrogen cycle will out-gas from your tank (not evaporate), but that assumes you have the complete nitrogen cycle in your tank. All tanks do not have that last anaerobic step and can't convert nitrates to nitrogen gas. So the cycle stops there.

 

[Alpha_03]

As I originally stated Nitrites are evaporated back into the atmosphere, there is no agurement, I hope, over this fact. But I think it is safe to assume that the bio cycling has been achived, in this case.

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

Just curious, so with a DSB one might not have to do as much pwcs as one without one? Also, I'm guessing DSBs should be in a sump most of the time to prevent those bubbles from affecting the fish? Sorry to thread jack just trying to learn.

No... a DSB can be in the display tank just fine. Fish don't care about a little bubble now and then. And no... having a DSB doesn't mean you should back off on pwcs - you still need to replenish what your corals are taking out of the water. Nitrate reduction isn't the only reason you do water changes.

 

[Aquarium1]

No... a DSB can be in the display tank just fine. Fish don't care about a little bubble now and then. And no... having a DSB doesn't mean you should back off on pwcs - you still need to replenish what your corals are taking out of the water. Nitrate reduction isn't the only reason you do water changes.

Ok, just curious. Thanks for clearing that up

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

As I originally stated Nitrites are evaporated back into the atmosphere, there is no agurement, I hope, over this fact.

There is. Show me in your Wikipedia quote, or in the Wikipedia graphic you posted where it shows nitrites evaporating into the atmosphere. Both articles show nitrogen gas going back into the atmosphere, which is a far cry from nitrites.

 

[Alpha_03]

From the above picture, we already know that a cycled aquarium in converting solids to gas is what the cycle does, other wise there is no complete cycle at all. Evaporation helps to carry these gases away (not just n2) ask yourself why your aquarium water has a certain odor to it.

Pure water has no odor.