Problems with corals

[Obmanta]

Hi all:

It's been a long time since I have been on here.

I have a 125g sw tank. Under the tank I have a Wet/Dry system with skimmer. Metal Halide 75w 10k lights, 175 lbs live rock. this set up is around 4 years old.

I have a bubble tip anenome and 3 mushrooms. I have several other fish as well.

My problem is I cannot keep coral living in my tank. I will place them in the tank and within 3-4 weeks they either melt away or just plain die out.

There is no nipping or biting from the other fish I cant understand what is going on.

I am told to use this set of chemicals or that set of chemicals. Usually the information is either opposite of each other. Change your water every month, don't change it. Use this chemical, don't use it. It is frustrating.

I would really like to get into a nice coral reef system but its expensive and sad when everything dies off. :-|

How do I get a nice reef systems going? What chemicals if any. Do I sell everything live in the tank and just start over.

Help, Is there a SW doctor in the house?????

Thanks,

Obmanta

 

[roka64]

I am no reefer, but can you tell us what other critters you have in the tank? PWCs are vital in replacing all the trace amounts that your corals will need (try doing a PWC every 2 weeks or 3 instead of once a month). Each coral has different needs, like feeding, lighting and flow.
Can you tell us about your lighting? Photoperiod? Feeding methods? Water tests?

 

[Dennis210]

You need to list your parameters - Temp, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, Calcium, Alkalinity, Phospate, Copper (?), pH, Specific Gravity, Salinity, and or Magnesium levels. It's hard to say without knowing at least some of these. I would also like to know about your salt brand, sand bed, flow,
do you use carbon, how often you empty skimmate, and your photoperiod.

Update your post and I will watch for more information.

 

[Obmanta]

125gal tank, 175lbs LR
CPR CY194 sump w/skimmer, Lighting: 48" 2 x 175w, 10k bulbs

1 Pacific Blue Tang,
2 Pecula Clown,
1 green Cromis,
1 Large Velvet damsel,
1 green starfish (not brittle)
1 Mono (acclimated)
1 foxface
1 bubble tip anenome
3 mushrooms












Actually, I haven't been keeping up on the levels at all lately.


I keep the MH lights on for about 6 hours daily
I am using crushed coral.
I never empty the skimmer cup, I allow the fluid to return back into the tank. I probably clean the cup once a month.
I use 4 pumps in the tank. 2 for water flow, one for return, one for the skimmer.

I just feel the need to start over.

I'm frustrated, and I can tell from your questions, I am not doing a good enough job to keep up with the tank.

Thanks,

Obmanta

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

1. Never empty the skimmer cup and let it overflow back into the tank?? I guess I don't really understand why you even have a skimmer then. The whole point of the skimmer is to remove the nasties from your water before they become even nastier... to put it simply. If all that gunk is just being collected then returned, you might as well just remove the skimmer. (I don't recommend that though - I'd actually recommend simply emptying the cup every couple days.)

2. You need to know where your water parameters are - all of them that Dennis210 listed. I probably wouldn't go out and buy a copper test, but you need to be aware that copper - in tiny amounts - is fatal to corals. If your tank is second hand, and you don't know it's history, it's possible copper was used in it in its "prior life." I have a feeling your water parameters are totally out of whack as it sounds like you've added chemicals here and there, and also because of #1 above. Nitrates are probably fairly high due to #1 and the crushed coral substrate. It's going to cost some $$ if you don't have any test kits (and not the strip kind), but it's the first step to getting corals living in your tank.

3. 6 hour photo period seems pretty short for corals. But I'd doubt that is your main problem.

4. Let us know how you make your salt water - are you using tap water? Grocery store water? LFS water? And are you mixing using a refractometer or hydrometer? Also... how often are you doing a water change, and how much?

I'd suggest a get a good "overview" book on corals and how to keep them happy, such as Eric Borneman's "Aquarium Corals" book. A lot of good info in there about requirements to keep corals healthy.

Oh... and also read up on this forum and keep asking questions! But get us those water parameters, start emptying your skimmer cup, and that will be a good start.

 

[Obmanta]

Thanks Kurt.

Well, Now I really feel stupid.

As far as water goes, when I change it, I usually am using tap water, When I get my water from LFS it usually has the salt already mixed in. I have heard both sides of you should or should not do regulat ware changes. So I have flopped to both sides of the argument. Not sure what is right or wrong.

I did buy the SW tank from another person several years ago and the skimmer cup had a tube attached to it, it was only large enough to get back into the wet/dry system. I thought that was how it worked. Not a bright light bulb here.

I have a hydrometer.

So, if I understand correctly, check all of my chemical levels, find PH level, salinity level. Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate.

What about the HW lighting? or should I worry about what is in the water first and then worry about the lighting?

Thanks again all,

Obmanta

 

[melosu58]

I have a 125 gallon reef tank. The corals and fish are up to 10 yrs old in it. Two problems I see. 1) Tap water should not be used in a reef tank IMO. All tap water is not the same. It ranges from decent to bad all over the country. Working for the water dept in my county I know what they put in the water. Your fish might handle it but corals are not. Tap contains heavy metals, ammonia, chlorine, Chlorimines and many other toxic compounds that would be harmful to corals. 2) Stop adding chems to the tank. Frequent PWC`s is all you need to do to add the necessary trace elements to your tank. Maybe a small exception would be calcium because some salt mixes lack the proper amount. I use Oceanic Salt mix and I dont dose for anything. I have never used tap water either and I would suggest you get an RO/DI unit for your water needs. Like I said I have some corals and several fish over 10 yrs old. Is it because I dont use tap and dont dose supplements. Might not be the whole reason but I think it a big part. Also I saw where you said " Usually the information is either opposite of each other. Change your water every month, don't change it." I would suggest you do frequent weekly PWC`s. It`s been good to me.

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

Just a couple additional questions...

In thinking more about your post, I realized you have an anemone in there. I would expect that to show signs of stress before corals, so it's strange that it's doing OK. Or is it? What color is it and what/how often do you feed it?

Also, what specific types of corals have you tried to add, and where did you locate them in your tank?

The original tank owner probably had that skimmer overflow tube routed to a bucket or something. That way they wouldn't have to dump the collection cup as often.

 

[Obmanta]

It is a large orange anenome. The 2 peculas are in it all of the time. It sits in the same place all of the time. It is at the top left hand of the tank. I actually do not feed it all that often. There are times when it enlarges itsself vertically. It is always open and very pretty.

I have tried the pulsing zenia (seems to melt away within 3 weeks)
leather
some coral cups
Other coral that I cant remember the names both soft and hard.

I have placed corals both at the bottom of the tank and at the top of the rock, no difference in the placement it seemed.

In thinking about the responses I have received I think I will try to do the following.
Unless you guys say different.

1. Change the crushed coral to all sand.
2. Perform a 50% water change during the process of #1
3. Change my plumbing (found rust running from a bracket into my wet/dry system)
4. Begin weekly chemical testing
5. Water changes.
6. Try to find the correct salinity and PH for the Fish and corals I have left

thanks all for your help and please continue to post here for suggestions.
I will try to get a picture of the existing setup I have Tank and Wet/Dry system for your suggestions.

Thanks,

Obmanta

 

[melosu58]

Those 6 ideas would be great. On no.1, I would maybe change 1/4 at a time. On No.2 just 25% PWC. No. 3 use SS. No. 4 buy a good quality SW test kit. No. 5 10-15% weekly PWC`s. No. 6 is fine. JMO

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

A few comments...

Without reliably knowing your existing water parameters - specifically salinity and pH, I wouldn't do a 50% water change. That's a lot, and if the new water is very different than your old water, then you could shock the inhabitants. You really need to know where your tank is now, and where your newly made salt water is. I'd ditch the hydrometer and spend the money for a refractometer. You'll get waaaay better consistency in readings. That'd be my first line of defense... buy test kits/refractometer and get an idea of where your tank is now.

I'd also suggest that coral book I mentioned. All corals are not the same and do not want the same placement or care. Some want sand, others want rock. Some want high flow, others low flow. Some want meaty foods, others don't. Just a hunch, but if you don't remember what corals you tried in the past, I'm guessing they weren't researched much before purchasing. They might've just been put in the wrong place, or you were given bad info from your LFS.

You mention xenia, so I'm just guessing that maybe one of those chemicals someone told you to dose was iodine. As melosu mentioned, if you do weekly water changes, you'll most likely replenish all the chemicals you need with the water change. Dosing things without testing is a risky proposition. It's easy to overdose iodine so I wonder if that may have been one of your issues... if indeed that's something you added.

3. Change my plumbing (found rust running from a bracket into my wet/dry system)

Last but not least, THIS may be a big contributor also. Fix this before doing anything. Heavy metals in your tank water will kill things off pretty quick. But then again, your anemone is doing OK, so things can't be too bad. That still seems odd that it's doing OK.

6. Try to find the correct salinity and PH for the Fish and corals I have left

Ideal Water Parameters for Your Marine, Freshwater, Brackish Aquarium, or Pond

 

[usmcmarc]

Hmmmmmm.Orange Anenome....Prob an RBTA? Strange it has survived and corals have not....

Kurt...wouldnt too much iodine or heavy metals kill off the nem?

 

[Dennis210]

Here are some essentials for you to try before much else.

1. Get a simple book like Paletta's "The New Marine Aquarium"
Or "The Conscientious Marine Aquariast" Something that gives a good
overview of set up, maintainance, stocking, etc. Read as much as
you can.
2. Decide what type of system you would like. Plan it out, all details from
building to stocking.
3. Buy everything you need including test kits (I find Hagen's to be both
effective and inexspensive).
4. Find someone or a LFS to babysit your livestock for teardown and
rebuild.
5. Now get the buckets, tear it all apart, and through out the CC.
Arrange your rock work first - on bare bottom. Use plastic cable ties,
resafe glue / epoxy, pvc, acrylic dowling. Get it the way you want it
and make it "STABLE". Make lots of openings and caves for flow, don't
do the "wall" thing alot of folks do. Make it interesting. Then add at
least 4 inches of sand (not silicate based). This can be dry sand, and
beg, borrow, or buy a few cups of good sand. Buy a detrivore kit
(after cycle). Fill it with salt water. Tweek to what you need for
parameters. I like Turbo Clacium, Superbuffer dKH, Reef Complete,
and start daily testing to see the cycle unfold. Go 36 days with out
adding anything except RO water for evaporite. Then do a 20% water
change and readjust parameters. Up to this point go with your 6 hour
lighting cycle. Add 1/2 your cleaner crew (snails & hermits) and just
one fish (sailfin or lawnmower blenny). On day 72 perform another 20%
waterchange. (You will also be topping off Evaporation and mixing
new water with RO) Order or buy second half of your cleaner crew.
Add second fish - a sand sifting goby highly recomended. Do Not
Overfeed Them! Again test test ant test until day 100.
6. Go ahead and adjust photo period to 7 hours, after another week go to eight hours, then 9 then 10 up to 12.
7. After bout day 100 add a good skimmer and a carbon filter.

Good luck, and keep asking questions - they are never dumb, they just make us all remember we to were once where you are now!

 

[roka64]

I have to agree with switching out the CC. Do it about 1/4 a week and have extra PWC just in case you get a spike. I would also suggest getting a 32G plastic bucket on wheels to premix your PWC water. I keep my 32 going all the time (the wheels make it easier to move around). I have a ph and heater in that bucket. Salt mixes should be pre mixed for at least 24 hours. This will give it time to aerate, balance the pH and adjust the temp that tha of the tank's.

 

[cmor1701d]

I would also look at getting a RODI unit to make water and a refactometer to measure SG. The hydrometers have a bad rap for being inconsistent in their readings. They also need to be rinsed in clean water after every use.

 

[Obmanta]

Thanks Guys for all of your help!!!!!!

1. Short on funds
2. I dont think my local LFS would be able to handle my livestock.
3. Anyone interested in any fish or anenome?

I will get a test kit and refractometer. Where do i find sand not silica based that doen't cost an arm and a leg? (that is the hard one)

Probably this weekend.

Is the problem with replacing all of the CC at one time the loss of the bacteria?

Thanks,

Obmanta

 

[land locked]

Since I just bought a combination of substrate and after reading these post I need confirmation I am doing this right. I have a 72 gal bow front, rinsed and cleaned today and rinsed (with RO water) the substrate. I have not put any of it in yet but I have it ready to go. I have Florida crushed coral 15 #, I was going to put this on the bottom in a thin layer. I have cleaned Aragonite 40# I was going to layer it on the coral. I had read somewhere that putting a screen in between these layer was a good idea for burrowers. Then my plan is to top it off with 20# CaribSea live aragonite reef sand.
What do you think? I want to do it right in the first place.

 

[Dennis210]

Okay - will try this again. For above mentioned questions. Once your tank has been up and running if you wish to get the CC removed (a very good thing) then remove livestock into holding containers with water from your system. pull out everything but the CC. Let the water settle and drain out as much unclouded water as you can. Now remove the whole thing. Trying to go in sections will release alot of bacteria into the tank that doesn't want to be disturbed - it could crash the whole tank. Now once everything is out put in sand. Approximately 4 inches or a little deeper is better. Now push sand away from bottom of glass and place foundation rock. Build a stable platform and basically make your aquascape. The screen someone mentioned to divide the layers is a plenum and if you aren't familiar with it don't do it! Live rock, a deep sand bed, and plenty of flow I what I tell beginners to shoot for as it is pretty bulletproof. You let it cycle and it will fully cycle and remove wastes.
Don't ever disturb the bottom though and expect everything to be ok!

 

[ccCapt]

You can use regular play sand from HD or Lowes. I used a combination of Kolorscope play sand from HD and 2 grades of aragonite. The play sand won't cause algea problems, but I didn't like it because it had real small sharp pieces of crushed silica (crushed glass/quartz). It didn't bother my watchman tho. I eventually got rid of the play sand, but not because of any problems. I just didn't like how it looked compared to aragonite.

Dunno about the screen between layers. What would it be made out of? What happens if current moves the sand and uncovers it? Gobies would probably eventually get to it too. Doesn't really sound very feasible to me.

 

[Innovator]

Thought I'd chime in. First, at this point in time I agree in needing water chemistry results. To reiterate what another posted: NH3, NO2, NO3, pH, Salinity, Temperature. If you can perform a PO4 test, even better. The point of a protein skimmer is to remove proteins and other organics so this "waste" is not to be returned to your main system. As Kurt already advised, redirect the effluent to a drain, waste collector, or other container. The use of tap is debatable, but I do at the mentioning of heavy metal toxicity in an aquarium, which can be lethal at elevated concentrations (bio-availability). Unfortunately, toxicity measurements are often difficult to conduct (Cu and Zn often templated) because various chemical forms exist and known to bind to other agents not to mention cost to perform such tests. Even if a particular salt mix shows a low concentration of a trace element does not guarantee problems down the line (think export). If anything, excessive nutrients can cause algae growth, but then again algae growth occurs in nutrient-poor systems as well; Balance is the key. Is RO/DI essential in maintaining a "successful" aquarium? Depends so do yourself a favor and conduct some tests of your own and ask for an extensive city water sample. On another note, water changes do not replenish trace elements to their natural state. Water changes can elevate trace elements, but in what form and how do you know what levels are actually beneficial or harmful? Removing all the CC will not remove all the bacteria, but removing sections is more reliable in keeping organics from being suspended and allow bacteria to colonize the new substrate gradually. You can mark sections on the tank glass so you know where to start/end each month. A 12hr photoperiod is not necessary, but within an 8-12hr is considered normal. In all constructiveness, there are plenty of resources at your disposal: wetwebmedia.com, reefkeeping.com, advancedaquarist.com, fishbase.org, etc. and it would seem you have quite a bit of reading to do