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Old 01-20-2004, 08:38 AM   #1
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Salt Water Koi Pond... Sorta'

Ok, Here's the deal... I've got this 10,000 square foot building that is our new scuba shop. I bought some fiberglass waterfalls, and a couple of koi pond liners with the intention of getting some flowing water inside the store. I know the gold fish and koi thing is pretty easy - I've had the backyard pond before - but I've also had good success with a 200 gallon tank set up salt.

So here's the thought...

Run my waterfall with fresh water into the small pond (about 100 gallons) but take the bigger one (500 gallons) and set it up with salt water fish. This will necessitate an open top - sits about 3 feet off the ground - and I realize - most the time you wont see fish - as they will hide a bit... but that's sorta' the fun of it.. "Oh look - there's one!"

So the question is - anyone tried this before?? What fish can I put in that wont jump - since I can't have a cover - and what mix of fish would you suggest for maximum visibility and movement when viewed above?

I figure I can put some submerged lights in - so it can get lit up - and I realize it won't have that Aquarium look... but every dive shop has an aquarium... we've got such a huge shop - this will be a different effect in the showroom. Put all together - the water fall and 2 tanks will be about 4 feet wide - and 20 feet long running through the back of the shop...

Any suggestions? fish? Filtration?? Other thoughts??

Thanks in Advance!

Larry
info@scubatoys.com
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Old 01-20-2004, 10:11 AM   #2
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I figure I can put some submerged lights in - so it can get lit up
hmmm, do they make that type of thing desigh=ned to stand up to saltwater?

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What fish can I put in that wont jump - since I can't have a cover
All fish are prone to jump if frightened.

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what mix of fish would you suggest for maximum visibility and movement when viewed above?
For a 500g deal your best bet for visibility is going to be tangs and angels, maybe triggers or lions, the tangs and angels are usually on the move all the time, the triggers are always looking for food and the lions simply don't hide very much.

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Any suggestions? fish? Filtration?? Other thoughts??
If you add enough LR you won't need external biological filtration, maybe a closed loop for watermovement and a large skimmer.

One consideration on this type of set up, it is subject to everyones kid spitting their gum in it, thinking it's a wishing well and throwing pennies in it and any chemicals and aerosols used in the shop will find their way into the pond.
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Old 01-20-2004, 11:55 AM   #3
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When getting a pump, make sure it is rated for SW use. I know you can run into problems with regular pond pumps.
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Old 01-20-2004, 01:40 PM   #4
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There wasa great pond setup in a petsore in Houston I once saw. They actually had dogfish swimming in it. It was prettyy cool. I might suggest puuting a low plexi wall or fence around the pond. You will still be able to see through it but it should stop smaller children from getting in by mistake. Or else a nice wrought iron type fence.

One problem is surface movement. Any rippling in the surface and the view is next to nothing.


Oh and welcome
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Old 01-20-2004, 07:14 PM   #5
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Thanks for the comments so far...

We're not really big on kids... If they are running around our shop - we tie them to their parents with kid leashes.... and explain to the parents they don't have enough money to pay for the things their kids are going to break. I've offended several parents when I explained to them that my dog is better behaved... some of them don't come back... and that's ok... (bad attitude I know... but oh well)

So we planned on kid proofing with rock barriers - attack dogs, and electrified fence if necessary.

We had planned on taking the water off the top - side - flowing into a wet dry system, then pump the water back in to the bottom to reduce surface ripples. As far as viewing... we figured if it's real bad seeing anything - we'd put a long piece of bamboo disguised pvc, with a glass cap at the bottom - pointing into the pond - so you could take turns looking into the viewing portal. I'm also pretty big on web cams - we have a remote controlled web cam at our site http://www.scubatoys.com and in this new shop we were running some underwater cams in the pool - and I figured we'd also run a underwater cam in the pond - broadcast it on a tv over the pond - and grab the feed for another cam link on our site.

Reading some responses so far - it looks like I'm hearing if you run enough Live Rock - I don't need the wet dry bio ball thing... is that right?? And the Yellow Tangs are one fish I had planned on... maybe a small school of 6 or 8 of them... I always had good luck with tangs.

I was thinking of ramping up the salinity slowly and cycling with black mollies... the introducing the lion fish would slowly deplete the supply of mollies in time. I read where someone else had done that as the mollies are so darn hearty and can migrate from fresh to brackish to salt in a weeks time... Just add a few pounds of salt a day until the specific gravity gets right... truth or rumor??

Keep any ideas coming - and I'll post the link for our cam when we pull this thing off!

Thanks for all the help!

Larry
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Old 01-20-2004, 07:37 PM   #6
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I explained to them that my dog is better behaved... some of them don't come back... and that's ok... (bad attitude I know... but oh well)
Not IMO, I can't stand it when people do not control their children.

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looks like I'm hearing if you run enough Live Rock - I don't need the wet dry bio ball thing... is that right
Yes that is correct, but if you go that route, you better have suface agitation for oxygenation. With the wet/dry the majority of the oxygenation could take place outside the tank.

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I was thinking of ramping up the salinity slowly and cycling with black mollies...
Easier to simply throw 4-5 raw dead cocktail shrimp in there, as they break down they will cycle the tank for you. LR will also cycle the tank without the use of live fish.

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Keep any ideas coming - and I'll post the link for our cam when we pull this thing off!
That is very cool!!
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Old 01-21-2004, 06:23 AM   #7
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Well then it appears that since my goal is to not have any surface agitation for the best possible viewing, I'll want to use an external wet dry system to get my O2... Anyone know where there is an external filter system that will work with this size (500 gallons) and cost less than a buick? And pump?? Probably 2000 gph right?

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Old 01-21-2004, 08:09 AM   #8
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This has got to be something, Larry - you taught me and my wife to scuba dive about 6 years ago! My wife was the little one that kept threatening to kill me because it was about 50 degrees down in Huntsville. Can't wait to come in and see the "Pond" or lagoon or whatever it is going to end up being. Good luck, and post some pics when it gets going.
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Old 01-21-2004, 09:13 PM   #9
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And pump?? Probably 2000 gph right?
Your probably going to want more than that if the pond is 500g your going to want a pump that will do between 4000 and 5000 at the necessary head pressure. This can be cut down through the use of powerheads inside the pond, but that again will create surfac agitation.
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Old 01-21-2004, 10:09 PM   #10
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There is a salt water waterfall pond in Living Sea Aquarium in Park Ridge, IL. (http://www.livingseaaquarium.com/)

Cool place for people in the area.
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