Setting up a tank... Question!

[jwsmartin]

4 wk old 24 gal aquapod with 15 lb or so of cultured live rock
It has tested great for about 3 wks now, but I lost my two clowns and two cleaner shrimp. My pollup corals are doing great, and I added two damsels yesterday and they are eating and doing great.

When should I add the two clowns, shrimp, anenome and tang?

 

[Erok7620]

im going to be the first to say 24 gal is too small for a tang and you will probably be overstocked with 5 fish in that small of a tank anyway. When did you add the clowns and how did you acclimate? And can you post your water parameters?

 

[fijiwigi]

Welcome to the AA, first of all take it easy and don't add anything else for a while especially the anemone(it needs a mature tank) and the tang needs at least a 75g tank minimally. The bacteria in your tank needs time to grow to be able to handle the bioload(fish waste) and then turn it from ammonia to nitrite to nitrate. First thing to buy is a test kit and test your water often probably every 3 days during the 6-8week cycling process and then weekly after that. During your cycle you will first see ammonia spike and then Nitrite and then Nitrates when the Nitrates minimize do a 50% water change wait another week then test your paramaters again. If all is good you can add 1 fish then 1 more fish monthly. Give your bacteria colonies time to mature to a level that can handle the fish waste. Or you will continue to see dead livestock., Trust me. A 24 gallon reef can be amazing but you have to be patient at least 1year before you get an anemone and if you want a tang upgrade to like a 100g tank.. Good luck hope this helps

 

[jwsmartin]

I added the clowns after less than two weeks on the advice of our fish shop. Then the cleaner shrimp about a week later. They all died same day, and another shop said I had a spike in nitrites that same day and to expect them to die. I have been back to the original shop, and he said to come by and get two more clowns today, but I am hesitant, so I went to petco and they tested it for me and said it looked great. I bought the two damsels since they were cheap.

I have been testing the calcium weekly, and the dip strip every three days, with perfect results even tonight. The clowns never did well, but these damsels are doing fantastic... so far.

I do know about the size limits with the tang, but I plan to have a bigger tank by then, or I will give him to a friend who has one and get a smaller one.

I floated the clowns for 15 min and added them... is there more to acclimating than that... sorry I am very new to this. Also, I don't know the exact parameters. Calcium is about 380, and the rest is a test strip:
nitrate - 0-20ppm
nitrite - 0
ph - 7.8
alkalinity - 300
ammonia - none as of test sunday

 

[roka64]

First off welcome to the site!
There is more involved in acclimating a new fish to your tank. The LFS I know of keep their tanks at a salinity of around 1.019ish. If you just float the bag for 15 minutes and your pH, salinity are different than that of your LFS, it will stress and possibly kill your fish (inverts, like your shrimp) are way less tolerant to changes in water chemistry.
I like to do a drip acclimation. I drip my fish for an hour and inverts for about 2 hours. This helps them slowly get used to the different water parameters.
I would also suggest you get the liquid tests, they tend to me more accurate and I don't like sticking things in my tank that have chemicals in them....

 

[fijiwigi]

AND NEVER TRUST THE LOCAL PETSTORE!!! THIS SITE IS WAY MORE HELPFULL

 

[Latitude_change]

Trying to learn here. Roka64, when you say you are acclimating by a drip, do you mean that you are litteraly putting only a few drops of your tank water into the bag with the new fish? Can you elaborate on this a bit? Thanks

 

[roka64]

I sure can. I put the LFS water and critter in a bucket and drip (about 3-4 drips per second) the water from my tank into the bucket. I like to cover up the bucket with a towel to give them some peace (plus I have some curious cats). I feed the tank a little bit. When I am done, I turn off my lights and net the critters and add them to the main. I leave the lights off for a few hours and then turn them on and enjoy. I like to drip because I have had great success and it gives me time to fiddle in my tank if I need to.

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

Tagging on to roka64's drip instructions, you can achieve that drip rate by running a siphon with 1/4" airline tubing between your main tank and acclimation bucket - but tie a knot in the tubing. By adjusting the knot, you can slow down or speed up the drip rate.

To the original poster - there is more to tank size requirement than just how big the fish is. The type of fish is important too. If you have a baby tang that's only 1/3 the size of an adult, that doesn't mean you only need a tank 1/3 the size than normal. Even a juvenile tang will be stressed in a smaller tank because that's just not a habitat it wants to be in.

 

[Ziggy953]

I'll step in and offer a different apporach to the acclimating of fish and corals. I used the drip method for a long time and then I did some reading and found that it isn't always the best thing to do. Here is why. When you drip at 3-4 drops of water per second over an hour or so period the O2 level, Temp and PH are going to drop in the container. That can further stress an already stressed fish. What I do is float the bag unopened for 10-15 minutes in my tank to equalize the temp some. I then open the bag and put some of my tank water in the bag and let it float (clip the top of the bag to the tank if you can you don't want it dumping out in your tank) after 10 minutes or so I put more of my tank water into the bag. By 30-35 minutes I have the new fish in the tank. I have found and read that this reduces the stress on the fish and keeps the O2 level as well as PH from dropping too much.

A very good example of this is when you acclimate an Anthias, they require lots and lots of O2 they are very active fish and do not do well in the drip method. A friend of mine went through the drip method with anthias and lost 3 in one day because of it.

I just thought I would offer another option for acclimating your fish. I do the same thing with new corals.

 

[Erok7620]

Hey JWS, havent heard from you here in a few days whats the word on the tank?
Also wanted to add I do what ziggy does however over an hour or so for fish and 2 or better for corals. I float the whole time changing out 10-20% water every 15-20min. Always dumping the bag water. I havent lost one yet.

 

[roka64]

That's just too much work for me! LOL!

 

[Ziggy953]

It's not that bad really...If I have to drip acclimate something, say it came from SG 1.019 and I have to bring it up to my 1.025 then I will use a 5g bucket and let the bucket fill using the drip method. I usually have to put a heater in the water to keep it from getting too cold. I only do that with corals and inverts. I haven't dripped a fish in a long long time.

My suggestion is to follow what ever instructions you are given from your LFS or online vendor to maintain the guarantee they provide.

 

[roka64]

I have my drip bucket under my 125 with my MH ballasts so they stay nice and warm.
That is a good point, go with what the vendor recommends (unless they say just dump it in).

 

[jwsmartin]

My tests have been great for over 2 weeks now, so I added two damsels, chromus and chrysiptera. They are doing fantastic. Corals are doing great, and I have added two more turbo snail, no more casualities yet! I think everything is cycled, its been almost 6 weeks.

The salt water I have is premixed from my dealer, and I test it before I add anything. So far no problems, and the salinity is about .024.

I do have one question. I am going to add my clowns this week, so I should remove the damsels, correct. They are too aggressive for clowns, right?

Thanks for all the help. I am getting pretty excited to bring some more corals, etc and get the ball rolling. I know it's a long process...

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

Three damsels and a chromis, in my opinion, is too much fish for a 24g. I'm guessing if you added those four fish all at once, you're going to see another mini cycle as your bacteria tries to catch up. In that small of a tank (and with only 15 lbs of live rock), I'd only add one fish at a time. Unless of course you're talking about a mated pair of clowns, in which case I'd be watching for an ammonia spike.

Yes... I'd take out all the damsels. The chromis can probably stay as they're pretty docile. Not sure why you added the damsels in the first place if you didn't have any intention of keeping them. LFS recommendation to cycle the tank?

 

[jwsmartin]

Sorry for the confusion, but I only have two damsels now, one being a chromus. I added them after I lost the clowns because they were very inexpensive and I wanted to see if they would survive. My water has always tested great, with the exception of the day after the cleaner shrimp died. I had a mini spike in nitrates which went away the next day. The two clowns I had never ate one bite from day one, so I'm pretty sure that is why they died. I also think I had red slime at the same time and didn't know what it was. I scraped it off but didn't remove it so maybe that caused the deaths.

I plan to keep the chromis, but bring the blue damsel to the pet store. Not gonna risk it. I should have the paired clowns this weekend. My dealer assures me that my water is great and I should have not problems whatsoever.
On a side note, I have had lots of other things growing. Looks like lots of feather duster worms, and some others I don't recognize. At one point, there were about a million tiny bugs crawling around inside the tank on the glass. They are gone since, but I was told that is a good thing.

Also, I have more like 25 lbs of live rock if I remember correctly. I was wrong the first time.

I know I sound uninformed to most of you, but I am trying to learn. Thanks for all the help so far!

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

Ahhhhh... I see how I should've read that sentence now!

Sounds like you're doing good. But still be watchful after adding the two clowns! Having extra premade saltwater onhand is always a good thing!

 

[blindskate]

no tang. keep your damsels, they're pretty hardy...cheap. and just let them chill for a little bit. do clowns in about a month I would say. but take it slow...

 

[jwsmartin]

Another question...

I have the Sunpod 24 hr hqi lights. Here is what I've been running so far...

4 pm - 11 pm - Metal Halide
11 pm - 7 am - Blue LED
7 am - 4 pm - White LED

There is about 30 mins of overlap each time they change. Does this sound about right?