Setting up sump questions?

[jphendren]

Hello,

I am considering putting a 10 gallon aquarium under my 55 gallon to use as a sump, I need someplace to sit a protein skimmer. I figured that I could also put my heater down there as well. I am curious what all I will need for this to work?

10 gallon aquarium, I am limited to this as my stand only has 11" of usable width. I will even have to remove one of my stand doors to make this work.

Overflow box of some type. I know there are Lifereef, Eshopps, CPR, etc.. How many GPH of flow do you recommend?

And a return pump to return the water back up to the tank after being skimmed. The water will need to climb 4'.

What else have I missed? I am not sure I am going to do this, but would like to know what will be entailed if I do. Mainly I need to be able to run a skimmer, and am still doing research on the differences between HOB and sump skimmers. How much flow through the sump will I need for a Bubble King Mini 160, or does it matter?

Thanks,

Jared

 

[mr_X]

the trouble with a 10 gallon is that you don't have much space. look at the skimmer you are interested in. they will state the skimmers footprint.
you'll have to partition the tank at least in 2 sections or the water level will not be constant.
your return pump should match your overflow (a little stronger actually to account for head loss).
the amount of flow needed for your sump will be determined by what is in it and how much water is needed to run it efficiently. in other words, if you have a skimmer with a 300 gph pump on it, i would have at least 300 gph running through the sump.

holy cow...that's a lot of money for that skimmer. i sure hope it's worth it.

 

[jphendren]

The footprint of the Bubble King is approx. 7" x 7" per what I could find on the internet. I've read that this skimmer is very quiet, has the best build quality, and from one review I read "was the best skimmer tested thus far." I've also read that it is pretty well plug and play, not much adjustment is necessary to make it work well.

My wife is not crazy about the price either LOL. I am still doing my research, so this particular skimmer is not set in stone. The pump on the BK mini 160 states 600 lph air, and 1,000 lph water. So per my calculations that is 264 gph.

Jared

 

[mr_X]

a good footprint for sure. i don't think there are too many decent skimmers that you have to tend to on a regular basis, but matching that footprint is going to be a challenge.

 

[jphendren]

Can I run these numbers by you guys?

Lifereef overflow up to 600GPH
Vertex Alpha Cone 170 skimmer 422GPH
Danner Mag 7 475GPH @ 4 feet head loss.

Does this sound correct? How should the sump be laid out? One big chamber for the skimmer, and a small chamber for the return pump?

Jared

 

[mr_X]

are you going to use an auto top off? the return area is where you will see all of your evaporation. if the chamber is too small, you are going to have to top it off quite frequently... possibly daily.
i would make the skimmer section just large enough for the skimmer, and the rest, return.

here is another space saving skimmer that might please the wife!
Super Reef Octopus XP1000 Space Saver (110 Gallon) Internal Cone Protein Skimmer

 

[jphendren]

Okay, thanks. The manufacturer recommends running the skimmer in 9-10" of water, so does that mean that the baffle on the skimmer side should be 9-10" high, and that is what sets the water level?

Also, what depth should the return pump sit in?

Thanks,

Jared

 

[mr_X]

you can make the partitions higher, but you'll have to construct a platform to raise the skimmer, but yes, the partitions dictate the water level.

you can keep the return in about 4" of water i guess, but as i said, the evap will be in that compartment, so you want some depth, so every time you turn around, the pump isn't running dry.

 

[jphendren]

Thanks again. So I figure that I need two compartments, one for the skimmer, and another for the return pump. The skimmer compartment will be 9" deep, and so will the return pump compartment. I am planning on special ordering a glass tank to use for this project, 27" long X 10" wide X 13" high. The skimmer requires 7.75" wide X 12.5" long footprint per what I could find on the net, so that just about divides the tank in half more or less. That is largest tank that will fit in my 55 gallon stand. I mocked this tank up out of cardboard, and you can just get it through the front of the stand.

I should have a valve on the output of the pump, to regulate flow correct?

Jared

 

[mr_X]

in the event of a power outage, you'll want some extra space in the tank for what drains down before the siphon breaks. just be aware of that when you are constructing your return. you'll need to drill a hole in the return just below the water line so that it breaks siphon almost immediately when the power goes out.

with your proposed overflow box and return pump i don't think you need a ball valve. you are going to be running it wide open.

is this the skimmer you are talking about?
Aquarium Specialty

if so, the footprint is 9¼" x 14"

i really don't think you need to spend that kind of money jared. i would much rather see you putting that money into lighting or corals.

 

[jphendren]

Okay, so no valves needed. Do you run some kind of tubing between the overflow and the sump, or PVC? I've seen both, any pro's or con's to one over the other? I read that you will have 2-3 gallons drain back if the pump shuts off, with my design there should be about 4.67 gallons of overhead. 27 X 10 X 4 / 231 = 4.67

Should I run the Mag 9.5 or the 7? The standard Lifereef overflow maxes at 600GPH.

The Mag 9.5 pushes 800GPH @ 4', that is 200 more than the Lifereef overflow can handle. Will this cause a problem without something to throttle it back?

The Mag 7 pushes 475GPH @ 4', the Alpha 170 skimmer pulls 1,600lph or 422GPH per my calculations.

Yes, that is the skimmer. It is made by Royal Exclusiv for Vertex, they are the people who build Bubble King skimmers. I have seen three different footprints for that skimmer, one person who own it stated that it would fit in 7.75" X 12.5", but it should fit in my sump either way. I won't put in my baffling until I have the skimmer in hand. I really want to own the best, and these are supposedly built nicer and run quieter than anything else. Very easy to adjust, and the collection cup just lifts off. I have not owned any skimmers yet, but supposedly most have to be screwed off, and that is somewhat difficult in a tight stand, which mine is. Are there any equivalent Reef Octopus cone skimmers to this model? Same specs, etc...

I already have two reef capable LED light pendents on my tank, which are suppose to be equivalent to a 150W metal halide each. I can't verify this, as I don't own or have access to a PAR meter.

In the end, I may do none of this, and use the money to upgrade to a larger aquarium, I really want a 125-150 gallon tank. I'm just trying to learn, and plan it out right now.

Thanks for your help so far, I really appreciate it!

Jared

 

[mr_X]

i use basic flexible drain tubing that you see in the LFS. pool stores use it also.
the pro to this is it can be moved if the need arises.

you'll have 2-3 gallons draining back? i would not trust that measurement, as every setup is different.

you can safely choke a pump back at it's exhaust port. this will save electricity and lengthen the pumps life.

 

[jphendren]

I got that information from this webpage:

Melevsreef.com | Acrylic Sumps & Refugiums

"Typically, you will only have 2 or 3 gallons drain down when the pump is off, so make sure there is enough room in your sump to hold an extra 3 gallons or more. You can figure out how much room you have with this equation [measured in inches]: L x W x H / 231 = Total Gallons"

If that information is incorrect, how many gallons should I plan for? I can make the sump taller, but longer and wider are not an option.

Jared

 

[mr_X]

well, if you don't drill the return below the water line, you'll have as much water leave the tank as it would take for the return to break siphon. in other words, down at the very bottom of your return nozzle, where you have it aimed at some coral or rock work perhaps....how deep is that? from there up will drain out when the power goes out due to back siphon.
the planning should be on more than just extra space in the sump.
you can make it quite minimal if you do that simple step.

 

[mr_X]

Super Reef Octopus XP1000 Space Saver (110 Gallon) Internal Cone Protein Skimmer

 

[PrettyFishies]

I would recommend you create a third chamber to house a refugium. It will help with nitrate issues.

I too like the flexible tubing. I've seen some people use longer tubing to reduce the flow rate of a pump as well. But adding ball valves to your pumps are an inexpensive alternative.