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Old 01-08-2006, 01:32 PM   #41
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Chad, you listened to the LFS again. What did we tell you? They don't know what they do, they are in the business of selling. 8O

First off, the acclimation procedure given by the LFS to you is WRONG. (a) floating the bag only equalizes the temp, (b) the time is too quick and the amount of display water being introduced is too much at a time, (c) the LFS tank water is probably the dirtiest. They may claim to be "the cleanest tanks in town" but they are HOLDING TANKS. Their tanks are dirty. It's like a port-a-potty concept.

For acclimation, you should read about drip acclimation process. This takes at least 3 hours. But it is worth it.

See, it's difficult to figure out what killed your fish unless you have singled out the problem. That means (a) I acclimated the fish well, (b) my parameters were ideal, (c) there were no aggression.

Based on ABC, the "LFS one cup per few minutes process" already killed it probably. The LFS may say "well, your water isn't cycled yet so the cup thing should work". But you have to remember, yours isn't cycled, their tanks are cycled, pH and sg established. There's still the difference in water parameters. The drip acclimation process allows your fish to get used to the new parameters (good or below average) slowly over time.

I tell you, the LFS peeps want to sell. With the customers, no one is monitoring their advice. The forum has admins and moderators who are educated in our hobby. They are able to assess the accuracy of an advice. Point blank, the LFS is not a good source of knowledge. Just a good source of merchandise.

The UGF, it will work. We told you about the sludge over a few months at the bottom. We are all just talking out of experience. However, if you just want someone to agree with you, the LFS is the place.

Sorry, Chad. I don't mean to disrespect you at all. However, it's been 4 pages of discussion and your tendencies never changed. I am sorry for the loss of your damsels. You might want to try a fishless cycle if you'd like. Good luck.
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Old 01-08-2006, 01:43 PM   #42
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I agree with the fishless cycle as well. And deffo no harm intended, we all just want to see your tank and it's inhabs thrive, not just "get by" or merely survive. Fish and such act different when in survival mode than in natural mode and the latter is much more enjoyable to look at.
There has been no sign of agression or erratic behavior from the damsels?
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Old 01-09-2006, 10:08 AM   #43
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Quote:
The yellow tail is doing great, and has been since the day we put him in the tank.

However we have now had 2 Blue Damsels, both have died.
Isn't there only one fish left now? This is sad. I think it's truly time to give up on the damsel cycle, hand him back to the store, and try fishless. It takes a while, lots of patience is required!

If you really like damsels (lots of people do!), you can add them (with proper acclimation) after your tank is fully cycled, and keep them healthy!
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Old 01-09-2006, 07:10 PM   #44
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Its not the cycle that is killing the damsels..... I have tested the water constantly..

My only guess is that the LFS was right and prehaps the Blue damsel got stressed by the yellow tail... The 1st blue damsel was never right, he was dark blue almost black since the second the LFS put him in the bag to bring home, he never did turn light blue after that.

The 2nd blue damsel, He was perfect, happy, no problems, after a few days, he stopped swimming around, and just started hanging out in the corner of the tank, a few days after that he died.

The yellow tail to this day, is still doing great.

Whatever opinions you guys have about fish cycling, I understand, and respect, but i am about 99% sure neither of them died because of the cycle process.


I apperciate all your help, and advice, We we start our LR tank, we will do a fishless cycle.



-TheChad
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Old 01-10-2006, 01:31 AM   #45
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Darkening of colors is a good indication for blue-colored damsels (blue damsels and yellow tail damsels) that they are either stressed due to (a) water parameters, (b) aggression, or (c) both.

I do have a quick advice and I mean this in a friendly way, you should observe your damsels because LFS can only assume. In this case, if there were signs of aggression from the yellow tail, then it's possible that aggression stressed your blue damsel to death.

Damsels aren't always villains. I've seen three-stripe damsels at around 3.5 inches and they are gorgeous. I have never seen yellow tail that size though.

I do want to acknowledge your patience with us as well, Chad. Our community may be overly eager in giving advice. I am guilty of that. But rest assured, this forum is probably the best online. You'll get a lot of good advice from people so long as you keep (a) caution, (b) enthusiasm, and (c) an open mind.

good luck again!
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Old 01-11-2006, 03:37 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheChad
Whatever opinions you guys have about fish cycling, I understand, and respect, but i am about 99% sure neither of them died because of the cycle process.
With only one small fish your system probably will not have a complete cycle. I truly hope you try the fishless method without the yellow-tail or any other fish in the tank.

That’s partly why it’s so cruel to cycle a tank with fish, it takes a decent amount of fish to create the initial ammonia spike but by the time it does start to cycle it’s at dangerous levels which can kill them.

Kind of like having a family sit in a closed garage with the car running for hours. One may survive (ie: yellow-tail) but most are doomed to a horrible death.
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Old 01-11-2006, 07:01 PM   #47
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Well I tested the water often, Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrate level's never got above .025PPM, (Unless it spiked durning the corse of a day in between testing), But i have signifficant algie groth threw out the tank. Its on the plants, rocks, gravel, and just starting to grow on the glass.

We did use BioZyme 1/8th teaspoon everyday for 7 days. I guess that was suppose to help the tank to build the good bacteria er' somthin..


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Old 01-12-2006, 11:04 AM   #48
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The best way to go about this is w/o the use of said fish and w/o chemicals. Your tank may cycle quicker with a smaller volume of water(hence the small spikes in no,no2,no3, and po4).. Almost everyone goes through the algae stage, some worse than others. If you have no snails or crabs, then now might be the time to purchase some.
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Old 01-15-2006, 12:29 PM   #49
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I have alge all over the tank now, it's all over the rocks, decor, plants. The only place there isn't alot of alge is on the glass.


Is it safe to go ahead and put in the Chocolate chip starfish?


What is the best cleanup crew for the gravel? The wife doesn't want snails.

Also we were thinking of adding about 3-4 Feather Dusters to our list (2 Clowns, 1 Yellow Tail Damsel, 1 Choc Chip Star Fish, 1 Fire Shrimp), Would feather Dusters be good additions?

Thanks,

-TheChad
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Old 01-18-2006, 08:30 AM   #50
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Unfortunately, snails are some of the best algae grazers. Get a couple of Mexican Turbos and you'll be very surprised at their ability to rid the tank of most of your algae. Cerith snails will burrow in the sand and keep the sand bed stirred up for you, as well as eat the algae. Hermits also eat some algae, but do better with uneaten food and detritus. Also, you may want to go with snails OR crabs. I have found that if you try keeping both, then when the hermit crabs go looking for a new home, the first place they will look is at your snail shells, and will kill the snails for their shell. I would not add any inverts until you tank params are more normal. Run a battery of tests on your top-off water. Are you using RO/DI water? Feather dusters are a great addition to any system, when added at the right time. You could add them now, but they may get grown over by algae as they are sand dwellers.
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