Starting a SW/Reef aquarium

[Creamhorses]

I have three FW tanks.....if/when I start a salt water tank, is there any reason I might not want to use water from these established tanks to start a salt water tank without cycling from square #1?

CH

 

[severum mama]

Yes. It's different bacteria altogether and I'm afraid it won't work.

If you can get fully cured live rock, you may not have to cycle at all. Otherwise, you can fishless cycle using raw shrimp or pure ammonia. If you have uncured live rock, the die-off will start the cycle for you. Also, assuming you use tap water in your FW tanks, it is better to use RO or RO/DI water for SW tanks.

 

[Hara]

and the bacteria's don't live in the water column, they live on surfaces.

 

[melosu58]

and the bacteria's don't live in the water column, they live on surfaces.

Right on the money here. The bacteria will live on LR, glass wall and equipment surfaces . Not in the water. You`ll need to cycle your tank.

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/article_view.php?faq=2&fldAuto=15

 

[Creamhorses]

So the water is really just a carrier to create the bacteria on various surfaces which provides the lifecycle needs of plant and animal life within the aquarium...........and the addition of salt is what makes the different bacteria grow?

I was thinking that I'd use the PWC water from established FW tanks to charge a 70g tank, then add the medium to change the environment to SW. Guess I won't go that route. It makes sense that fresh and salt water won't support the same bacteria. { I wonder if that is the reason for adding salt to fight ick.....}

I've been tempted to purchase an RO device to deal with my hard water. Perhaps I should make that investment which would serve both FW and SW aquaria.

I'm reading all I can and trying to understand this SW program. I've got a lot to learn.....

Thanks

CH

 

[roka64]

So the water is really just a carrier to create the bacteria on various surfaces which provides the lifecycle needs of plant and animal life within the aquarium...........and the addition of salt is what makes the different bacteria grow?

The water will have a very small amount of the beneficial bacteria. As stated above, the bacteria will grow on/in your LR, substrate, and many other surfaces like some filter media and sponges. SW and FW have their own specific types of bacteria. The ammonia source is what helps to feed the beneficial bacteria. The ammonia will produce nitrItes that are consumed by nitrAtes.

I wonder if that is the reason for adding salt to fight ick

That and raise the temp (in FW) that won't work in SW. There are folks that will do a FW dip to attempt to remove parasites on SW fish. I have read this process can be harder on the fish and QT with a lower salinity with proper treatment is a better solution.
Your best bet would be a complete RO/DI unit.

 

[melosu58]

This explains it a little more.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-06/dw/index.php

 

[Creamhorses]

Been reading here and other sites......Yes, an RO/DI unit large enough to handle both my FW and future SW tanks is where my next 'play money' will go. My practial side would say: "What play money' ......did I say wife?

I'll more than likely going tp start a SW environment in a dormant 70g tank. Love the idea of a bearbottom tank, but have to read more on this and other basic stuff first.

One of local lfs's has three SW set up's with various marine life. One of the employees said....."Oh just get your tank set up, and in a week or so , come back and try a few of these little fish.

I'll keep reading and listening.

CH

 

[lando]

One of local lfs's has three SW set up's with various marine life. One of the employees said....."Oh just get your tank set up, and in a week or so , come back and try a few of these little fish.

I suggest you do not take any more advice from tht LFS. As you are learning, setting up a SW takes time, patience and money. Keep reading and researching like you are doing now. Check out our "Articles" section at the top of the page for great info on using a fishless cycle.

 

[Creamhorses]

Hey Lando

No no I've been burned too many times....and I don't understand why these folks @ the stores [sometimes they are the owners who should know better] talk like the light's on, but nobody's home!! I'll listen, but I will check stuff out here @ AA et el, and make my own decisions based on experience and common sense.

My fishless cycle will commence with store bought shrimp in an open baggie, so I don't have to watch bits 'n pieces floating around the tank.

Anyone have experience with the bare bottom tanks?

CH

 

[Creamhorses]

In the process of looking around I checked out the 'Filter Guys' web site....then saw them mentioned in other posts.

They sound reputable and knowledgeable.

Any comments?

CH

 

[seaham358]

airwaterice.com has a great product and has customer service is outstanding.
I have also head good things about the filter guys..

 

[lando]

I have an RO/DI system from www.thefilterguys.biz and love it. It is far superior to the Kent Maxima that I had first.

 

[roka64]

Barebottom tanks are doable, but I feel it takes away from the natural look.

 

[Creamhorses]

Looked up airwaterice.com.

Looked @ their typhoon III. 150gpd. It seems everything that the unit needs to function comes with the package. Wrote them an email to explain our well water low pressure in house 30-35#s and would I need a booster pump. They replied later the the day, answering that I could get by without the booster, but would have much lower output per day.

I haven't contacted the filter guys yet.

I have however kind of set a goal of where I'd like to take this project. The Anemones and the clowns fascinate me. I'm just pondering if I want to go bare bottom, I'll have to get species that like rock not sand. Nothing here is locked in stone, but I'll admit, I'm hooked big time. omg.....RO/DI, skimmers, lights, ozone, UV, etc.

Oh well I could own a boat.

CH

 

[Creamhorses]

I've been reading various threads on SW related topics wherever I can find them. Some are better than others, but I have funneled down an ended mass of material to understand the basics to begin this project of starting a SW tank.

There are a couple things that I don't find much reading on, and will start with this one:

Display tanks, sumps, fuge, etc never seem to be covered, like a hood would do on tanks such as I have. It seems that the evaporation from these tanks would cause a build up of moisture in the house, tank room, etc. I would prefer to have glass panels or something to minimise this. Um...lighting issues probably enter here, as I understand the need for light to penetrate water depths for certain life. What do you do to control this evaporation? I don't want to run a dehumidifier in the main part of the house. Vermont winters here- wood fired heat = dry in winter, so a bit of evaporation is ok to control statis electricity.
Vermont summers - Heat and humidity ....sometimes we'll run dehumidifier in celler [finished with cement floor].

TIA for thoughts

CH

 

[Devilishturtles]

Display tanks, sumps, fuge, etc never seem to be covered, like a hood would do on tanks such as I have. It seems that the evaporation from these tanks would cause a build up of moisture in the house, tank room, etc. I would prefer to have glass panels or something to minimise this.

There are a few reasons for this, but the biggest and most important reason is that a covered tank traps CO2, which in turn drops your water pH. An open top allows for sufficient CO2 exchange and keeps pH regulated. Yes...evaporation is a neccesary evil and can be fixed with daily or few times a week top offs with freshwater. Moisture build up in a house is a good point, but opening some windows every once in a while or thus running a dehumidifier would help a lot. I have lots of tanks in my rooms, and try to keep windows open as much as I can, especially in the spring and fall.

Another issues in respect to canopies/hoods and lighting is heat build up. Depending on what lighting you go with, they put out LOTS of heat. An open top tank allows for temperature regulation as well, and doesn't cause as much heat build up in the canopy.

You may have a huge evaporation problem...but lots of people do. Take the time once a day and just dump a bucket of freshwater in and you'll be fine. Some tanks evaporate little to none, some evaporate 5 gallons a day. Comes along with the hobby.

Some people run auto top off systems, but a lot of people have accidents where the auto top off fails and floods their room/homes, etc. So it's sorta a trade off if you want to take that risk with an auto top off system or just fill manually more often.

HTH some

 

[Creamhorses]

D, If you have a given SG in your system and you loose 'x' amount of evaporated water, do you replace it with fresh or salt water? And the auto top off runs from your house supply [via RO/DI] or from a sw reserve? Seems logical that SG would increase on balance of water in system.......

Along the thinking of the CO2 build up, and how we deal with O2/CO2 in fresh water planted tanks.......I've not heard of a fuge with ocean plants [kelp] or other plant life that would aid in this cycle. What is animal and what is plant in the average listing in home sw aquariums?

CH

 

[lando]

D, If you have a given SG in your system and you loose 'x' amount of evaporated water, do you replace it with fresh or salt water?

All top-offs should be done with FW. Salt does not evaporate along with the water. This is why it is so important to top off on a regular basis. Going topless is very good for your tank but will require more frequent top-offs.

Along the thinking of the CO2 build up, and how we deal with O2/CO2 in fresh water planted tanks.......I've not heard of a fuge with ocean plants [kelp] or other plant life that would aid in this cycle. What is animal and what is plant in the average listing in home sw aquariums?

Again, gong topless and pointing a powerhead toward the surface to create some surface "ripple" will aid in gas exchange. A fuge is really more beneficial in adding biological filtration and aiding in nutrient export, but also do play a part in shedding CO2. They generally have an efficent substrate (LS or mud), maybe some LR and some macroalgae (caulerpa, ochtodes or botryocadia) or plants like mangroves.

 

[Devilishturtles]

Can't say it better than that.