Starting from the Beginning.

[Patroklos]

First Post, and first SW aquarium.

So, to really start from the beginning I have two basic questions.

1.) Where can I get a decent quality stand furniture wise. I have been to the three aquarium shops in the city and they don't offer anything I can use. I want my aquarium to look as natural in my living room as I want my fist to look in the aquarium That being said, I hae a contempory decore but everywhere I go online wants 2-3K for just an enclosure! Do you guys know of any vendors with decent prices (1K is what I am looking for max with aquarium).

2.) The above mentioned aquarium shops are, shall I say, unimpressive. One seems to have knowlegdable people passionate about the hobby and a passable inventory, the other two were so horrendous I wanted to buy the few sickly fish they had just to put them out of their missery. This leaves me in the postion of, as a beginner, having to order and do things online for the most part. I have seen sights that actally sell fish/invertes/live rock through the mail, is this really even a plausible way to go about things.

BTW, this is my first SW tank but I have had FW tanks for years, so I am not entirely clueless, just mostly

Thanks.

 

[tamra&steven]

you can buy fish, inverts, whatever off the internet. there are some good people out there selling good stuff. there is alot you will need besides a tank stand and lid. so dont forget to add that to your total you are willing to spend. you need lights, skimmer, live rack, live sand, some type of filter or sump. a good test kit. anyways i dont know where they sell good looking stands on the net but i know someone on this site will know. what state and city you live in? at my LFS i can get anything custom made.

 

[Patroklos]

1K is what I have budgeted for the tank and enclosure taking everything else into account. One of the few good things about the patience required for the SW aquariumI guess is that you don't have to buy everything at once, just the physical gear up front and the critters a lot later.

I can get custom enclosures made here but the guys who do it seem sort of shaddy (ie have no examples/pictures of their work, and these were recommended to my by the store guys ). That, and a custom stand might run me over my budget.

I am in Chalreston, SC, btw. I was supprised the local resources were so scarce.

 

[tamra&steven]

well at least you have a good budget. what size tank do you want? if you know of any woodshops in your area they can build one for you that would be in your budget i would think.

 

[cmor1701d]

You should start with the Articles section then check out the New Tank Setup List thread.

After that read How to cycle your tank with out the use of fish and Quarantine.

Then start posting your questions, thoughts on equipment and stocking etc. the Geting Started forum....

Quarantine
Refugiums

 

[tamra&steven]

also if you are handy and have tools you can build your one stand and lid. that saves money too.

 

[Patroklos]

well at least you have a good budget. what size tank do you want? if you know of any woodshops in your area they can build one for you that would be in your budget i would think.

1K is what I could spend, I would rather not spend that if I don't have to. I am looking at a 75 gallon tank, as everything I have read has said that shoud be big enough to "absorb" a mistake or two but no so large as to be overwhelming.

also if you are handy and have tools you can build your one stand and lid. that saves money too.

I am not that handy! Not to sound snobbish but I really want the enclosure and aqarium to blend in with the furnishings of my house, so I am willing to pay a little extra or a proffesional piece. It does sound likeI should give that shop's custom guy a second look though.

You should start with the Articles section then check out the New Tank Setup List thread.

None of the articles addressed my question. I am not so much asking how to set up the tank, but rather if anyone knows of/has had a good experiance with a particular vendor (stand/encloure wise).

Those articles are great though :b: I have only read half of them so far but what a wealth of knowledge you guys have here!

 

[Skyrmir]

I am not that handy! Not to sound snobbish but I really want the enclosure and aqarium to blend in with the furnishings of my house, so I am willing to pay a little extra or a proffesional piece. It does sound likeI should give that shop's custom guy a second look though.

Generally having someone custom build for you is going to be a premium, you might try someplace like this : Carpenters | Carpentry Contractors

That would at least give you a selection of quotes to look at. Try the cabinet and closet guys, they be more likely to take something like this.

Even if you're not that handy though, aquarium stands are really basic projects. You might be able to pick up something close to what you want and paint, skin or resurface it to look like what you want for cheaper than having it custom made.

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

If you want something that blends in with the furnishings in your home, you're most likely going to have to go custom. And going custom, with a person that is familiar with building stands, is going to go over your budget. So you're either looking at getting something that's commercially available that is close to your furniture, or blowing your budget. (Or I suppose you could get new furniture to match the fish stand?! At least you'd stay under budget on the stand!)

I went through the same process you're going through when I started. Ended up with the standard Oceanic "kind of like oak" stand for the 46g bowfront.

 

[cmor1701d]

My first post was just addressing that this is your first SW aquarium. I wanted to make sure you were aware of all the items you would need to get started.

I don't know if you checked on BRI Aquatic Cabinets yet, but you may want to ask a couple of lfs' to get price quotes for you (they only sell to the trade). They may be very expensive based on their site. Possibly a more affordable alternative would be AquariumSource.com A 75 with built in centered overflow and Durso type silencer is under $800.00 + shipping. Not sure if that includes everything or not. It might be worth a call to find out.

 

[Patroklos]

I looked at that aquarium source place, very nice stuff but that $800 dollars is just for the tank, the cheapest stan to go with it is $1500 dollars!

I saw BRI, I will see if my local dealer can get a quote from them.

 

[Patroklos]

Well, I found this, MyFishTank - Product List [ Stands > Bowed Front > LS Oak ], which is along the lines of what I am looking for.

 

[Patroklos]

Alright guys,

I finally hit the last LFS in the area and I think I found a resorce that can help me out here. The place had a god stock of tanks/stad/supplies and a clear professional tank farm. While their stock had a little to be desired (especially in inverts), the livestock looked well taken care of and heathy.

Most of all, the staff there was friendly and helpful. When I informed the guy I talked to about who I was, what I was looking for and how much I wanted to spend he spent a good hour on looking though the internet with me and going through catalogues to find a solution to my stand problem above, and from there we went step by step through what I wanted for my tank and then through what he thought I needed. This is what he reccomended for me and the prices he quoted.

1) 65 Gal Predrilled Glass Tank - $236.86 - I had originally wanted acrylic because I don't like seams, but the LFS rep made a good arguement for glass. Basically he showed me his farm tanks (he used acrylic there only because of all the modifications to the tanks he made for the farm) and said they were prone to algae buildup (is this correct?). Then he showed me the scratches and scuffs created from a few years of cleaning that algae off. He did say, however, that glass filters out more of the light spectrum and thus might mute the colors of corals/fish (is this correct?).

2.) 36X18 Serenety Series Cabinet Stand - $239.75 - This met the decour needs of my living room, and also fit into the place I want it to go. I wanted something between 50 and 75 gals but I didn't want anything longer than 3", hense the deeper aquarium. I want the debth though, I have some ideas for rock formations that may need it.

3.) 36" Nova Extreme Pro 6x39W HO T5 Fixture (fixture includes 3x39w high output T5 10K lamps + 3x39W high output actinic lamps + reflectors + cooling fans and mounting docks) - $349.00 - This is something I need the most help with, because though I have read a lot about lights I don't quite have my head around it yet. I want to be able to keep all ranges of coral, so I know I need the appopriate lighting, but this would be almost the most expensive thing in my tank! Is this going overboard?

4.) Ecosystem Pro Series Refugium 2410 (includes refugium 24"x10"x12", motorizes protien skimmer13W PC refium light, miracle mud (what is this?)) - $499 - Now I know from reading here that his is hotly debated in many circiles. My original intention for filtration was to use the LS and LR for biological, then use a canister and biowheel in tandem for mechanical/chemical and a little more biological as well as aeration. Now I know many here swear by the regugium, but at $499 that seems a bit much (I don't have the means to build one myself). Would my original idea for a filtration setup fit the bill or is paying for this a good idea. The LFS rep showed my the refugiums used in the store's show tanks (not the far ones, but full functioning reef tanks for display) with all the macro algea and whatnot but I am still balking at the price.

5.) Mag Drive 950GPH Submersible Pump - $130

6.) 250W VISA Therm Submersible Pump - $27.00

7.) Coralife Digital Thermometer - $9.00

8.) AGA Overflow Plumbing Kit - $50.05

9.) Live Sand Aragonite Sunstrate - $60.00

10.) Chemipure Activated Carbon Resin - $18.00 I meant to ask about this before I left but forgot, what is this for? As far as I tell this suggested setup has no chemical filter to use the carbon with.

11.) 65 Gal salt water from LFS - $97.50

12.) SeaTest Hydrometer - $9.59

13.) Laborett + Reef Test Kits - $60.00

14.) 2 Koralia circulation pumps model 3 - $80.00 - I can see the logic behind these as far as makeing a strong current for the corals, but I wonder if these are necessary because I haven't seen many here mention extra pumps in their reef tanks (or seen them in pics).

15.) Vinyl backround - $15.00

16.) Plumbing odds and ins - $8.00

17.) Canopy - $0.00 The LFS rep suggested no canopy for my tank, primarily because of the heat generated by the lamps. That makes sense, but I can always cut vents in the canopy for air flow. Most things I have read have stongly suggested a canopy, any thoughts?

Total = $1,888.75

A lot of damage, but hardly as much as it could be. I am currently doing online checks on all this equipment to see if I can get it cheeper, and if I opt out of the refugium or for cheaper lighting that will go down. What do you all think, I put myself at the mercy of your experiance!

 

[cmor1701d]

Check the prices at That Pet Place, Drs. Foster and Smith, Marine Depot, and Big Al's for better pricing on just about everything.

Get the tank and stand locally. Get almost everything else online. Pick up a RODI unt on eBay for $150 or less and make your own water. Get a bucket of salt mix (stating a brand preference can start a small war, but I use Coral Pro).

If you have LR, LS, a Protein Skimmer, and a sump you do not need a cannister filter. The protein skimmer is a must IMO. You can make a sump out of a plastic tub to hold the PS and heaters, etc. You can also put the macro in there. You can make a sump/fuge from a 20 gallon tank with just a few pieces of acryllic glued to the sides.

Aeration happens at the surface of the water. That's one of the reasons we use power heads in the tank. Aim them towards the surface to ripple the surface and break the surface tension. Not sure where you got the idea that we don't use them. Almost everyone has at least one if not 2-4 power heads in the tank.

That light will allow you have almost anything. Crocea clams may be out as may some higher light loving, bottom corals (plate). A deeper tank needs light that penetrates deeper. The 6 bulb Nova Pro is a good choice but in a deep tank 250w MH would be best. Don't sweat it though, that's a pretty good light system.

Skip the hydrometer and get a refractomer (about $35.00). Hydrometers are not consistent though they may be accurate at times. The SG is too important to turst to a $10 piece of plastic.

 

[Patroklos]

Get the tank and stand locally. Get almost everything else online. Pick up a RODI unt on eBay for $150 or less and make your own water. Get a bucket of salt mix (stating a brand preference can start a small war, but I use Coral Pro).

Yeah, I had planned on making my own water, thats just what they guy put on the quote so I figured I would use it.

If you have LR, LS, a Protein Skimmer, and a sump you do not need a cannister filter. The protein skimmer is a must IMO. You can make a sump out of a plastic tub to hold the PS and heaters, etc. You can also put the macro in there. You can make a sump/fuge from a 20 gallon tank with just a few pieces of acryllic glued to the sides.

Yeah, I thought I might be able to do that cheaper myself as it doesn't require modifying the aquarium as much as just routing water through pipe work. However, is it really necessary to have a sump AND a refugium?

Aeration happens at the surface of the water. That's one of the reasons we use power heads in the tank. Aim them towards the surface to ripple the surface and break the surface tension. Not sure where you got the idea that we don't use them. Almost everyone has at least one if not 2-4 power heads in the tank.

I guess I just must have missed it. I am asuming my powerheads should be run through the trunk? Are they pushing water from the sump/refugium or just pushing water within the display tank?

That light will allow you have almost anything. Crocea clams may be out as may some higher light loving, bottom corals (plate). A deeper tank needs light that penetrates deeper. The 6 bulb Nova Pro is a good choice but in a deep tank 250w MH would be best. Don't sweat it though, that's a pretty good light system.

Okay, so it sounds like this will give me enough breath of choice in livestock to be worth the price.

Skip the hydrometer and get a refractomer (about $35.00). Hydrometers are not consistent though they may be accurate at times. The SG is too important to turst to a $10 piece of plastic.

Yeah, I actually just read an article that said just that.

Thanks for the advice!

 

[lance]

Sounds like your off to a good start.

Water flow is very important in a reef tank. I give give a few links if wanted. I didnt see any LR listed so i would do a 50\50 mix of base rock and LR.Saves money and limits unwanted hitch hikers.

You almost have the basics down but understanding there needs is much more helpfull. Also remember the monthly increase on your electric bill , could be 60 bucks or more.

Then trusting the LFS water source removes a big factor. With water many unwanted trace elements take time to appear after many water changes and then its harder to control. This hobby all about control and the more you have the better.

Also preplan all wanted stock from CUC to fish and coral for easier introduction and there needs. GL..

Amazon.com: The New Marine Aquarium: Step-By-Step Setup & Stocking Guide: Michael S. Paletta, Edward Kadunc, Scott W. Michael, John Goodman: Books

Common Saltwater Aquarium Mistakes 10 Most Common Saltwater Aquarium Mistakes

What is a Biological Filter? - About Guides to Saltwater Aquariums

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

Agree with others with what they said.

One thing though... for a "package deal" from a LFS, that's a pretty nice one as far as the quality of the stuff they're quoting and the components. There's no obvious gouging going on... other than paying normal fish store prices. I mean... they're not trying to sell you stuff you don't need. (Well... maybe you don't need the chemipure and they quoted you a hydrometer instead of a refractometer, but those are small items.)

Agree that you'll find much better prices online, but it sure seems like you have a trustworthy fish store that's not just looking to sell you only big profit margin items, and stuff that they'll know you'll have to upgrade in 6 months. You might want to throw them a bone and buy some of that stuff from them, depending on what your budget is. I just hate to see someone spend all that time specifying a system for you and then not making any money for their effort. (This coming from someone that bought most of their hardware online! But I didn't shop it locally first though!)

 

[Patroklos]

Well I am glad to hear I have some apparently trustworthy guys to work with. Don't get me wrong you guys are awesome, but it is always good to have a someone to have a face to face discussion with.

At the very least the tank and stand will go through them since there just isn't any local source, probably the lighting as well. They are also going to be getting my initial LR setup busisness because they had some very good looking pieces (LR wasn't in the quote).

I am pricing online now, and if I get any major deals I will get those components online.

 

[Patroklos]

Alright, I did some pricing online and I can indeed get some components cheaper. That being said, as Kurt said it is obvious that the LFS wasn't gouging me and rather just charging a normal markup (which is totally cool, he isn't a volunteer!) and in a few cases slightly less.

The two big places I think I can save money on is the lights and the refugium.

1.) Lights. I found the exact same model for $284.70 at PetMountain.com - Online Pet Supply Store, Pet Supplies, Pet Accessories, so that is a savings of $65.00.

2.) The LFS actuall had the same price for the Ecosystem Pro Series 2410 as the ecosystem website itself (I assume that is where he will order it from). Now there is obviously something to be said for a seft contained all in one system since I am a newbie, but I can't help thinking I can do better myself. I priced out a good protein skimmer that you guys here seem to like, the Octopus NW-110 for 169.00. A similar sized (24"x10"x12") acrilic aquarium to the Ecosystem setup is just $60.00-$80.00. I figure I divide that into a sump (for the skimmer), a refugium, and a small return with buble trap with three pieces of acrylic. $60.00 for some miricle mud, $20.00-30.00 for a PC light and I should be set, right?

On an aside, I am a bit confused about the pump/sump setups, tell me if I have this right. The protien skimmer/sump gets fed via the gravity driven overflow from the tank. The refugium gets fed via an overflow from the sump? Now looking at the some diagrams it seems like this is not so much an overflow as simple a gap in the acrylic plate. I assume that the sump has a positive pressure and thus outward flow because of the pressure from the gravity overflow and keeps the macro algae and whatever else from entering the sump? From the refugium there is an overflow to a return chamber that again keeps the macro algea from getting to the display tank, and from the return chamer a submersible pump pushes the water back to the display tank? I assume the system stays balanced because everything the pump pushes to the tank should fall back down through the overflow, right?

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

Glad to see you priced out the lights. That was an area I was going to mention that I was sure you could do much better on purchasing online. It initially seemed crazy to me to buy lights (thinking of major shipping damage!) online, but I couldn't believe how well packaged they were. (Check out hellolights.com if you haven't already.) And now, I even get my replacement bulbs via mail order.