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Old 03-29-2004, 02:30 AM   #1
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stop the carnage and the lies

I bought my tank from petco in dec 55 instant ocean. sold me 20 live sand and 6 damsells. Now my 4year old knows what a damsell die off is all about thanks petco. LFS oh tank is cyled add new fish some clowns, and some LR, which is cured, in store, clowns die, oh try a anemone and clowns, all in better place now. Pepermint shrimp added 1 hr later does nose dive, I think he was dead, might have been molting, anyway better place now , Nice algee layer, oh need some turbo's LFS 4 turbos and 2 hermits, And maybe some new LR which is cured in store. great red slime alge spread after attemp to scoup out to 4 corners of tank. Treatment red slime alge killer. works for about 4 days. the bam back. LFS oh you need goby to stir sand.

Any way I fillaly found a great store in Tulsa,Ok about 1.5 hours Ultimate reefs. They were honest. Sold me LR cured which i guess means that it is mostly killed all the worms ect.

Here is what they told me
1 I got the classic damsell die off cyle which could have been done with LR and I would have gotten something to keep instead of 6 little funerals.
2 I need lots more sand 2-3 inches and could have use reg. instead of expensive live sand.
3. I need calcium in water for LR and corals
4 I need power heads instead of air pump and air stones.
5 Recyle tank for 30 days
6 put snails goby, hemits ect. in new 5 gal gt for 30 days with new LR 15 lbs for 30 days
7 add 10-15 turbos to big tank with 10 or so hermits, and do water change using only ro no tap water. wait week buy few fish put in QT put goby and damsell back in large tank. Add 1-2 fish every 2 weeks,
8 recommended deep sixing emp 400 for sump or refugee. with protein skimmer,
9 recommends remora c, with siphon surface skimmer, mag float no more touching alge, 1.025 salt level will help, lights on timer a must calcium additions as needed.
10 No over feeding frozen krill elevates amonia, and cause algee to grow better.
water temp no higher than 78

Now this all sounds great but to a newby you could tell any thing

Basiclly I like the small tank I get to watch hemits play king of mount LR throw each other to the bottom.

This LR in my QT is only 15lbs or so has 100 or so small feathers on back few large ones, on front, along with 20-30 polyps, 3 anemonie although I have heard they are bad spreaders, grape algee, which I hear my emrald will eat. There was a small shrimp on when I picked it up, And I saw a bristle worm wow they are fast.

So will my tank get all this kind of stuff on the LR or will it take a year,
Here is my wifes trick for getting just the righ LR go to LFS but there display tank rock after 20q's and hours.

We got some really nice pieces with holes the size of fist in them. I was wondering if you get great stuff off the net or is it wow just a bunck of rock.
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Old 03-29-2004, 02:50 AM   #2
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see what happen when you got no patients.
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Old 03-29-2004, 09:44 AM   #3
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Hey Frank,

I had a hard time following this post and may be the reason for lack of response.

What I'm getting is that your first LFS was a bunch of money grubbing morons that didn't really care about your SW experiece, just wanted your money. This new LFS seems much better and worth the drive although I noticed one thing that bothered me a bit. Natural reef temps are from 80-84 *F, and there is no reason to keep the tank below 78. My reef runs between 80 and 82 (actually gets warmer at night with the lights off) and I have no algae issues.

There are a couple reasons you might have had some slime algae, were you using tap water for top off and water changes? RO/DI water is much more pure and does not feed the algae like tap water will.

What lights do you have on the tank, wattage, number and type?

There is some really great LR to be found online, one of our sponsors liverocks.com has excellent aquacultured LR and I haven't heard a complaint yet.

What test kits do you own and what are your readings?

Do you have a protien skimmer?
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Old 03-29-2004, 03:21 PM   #4
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Re: stop the carnage and the lies

Hope you dont mind, but I broke your post up into more manageable pieces.


Quote:
Originally Posted by f-dean
oh try a anemone and clowns, all in better place now.
anemones require high lighting and are not for the novice. Unless you have the proper lighting, they will die....

Quote:
Nice algee layer, oh need some turbo's LFS 4 turbos and 2 hermits,
Turbo snails are great for taking out algae, the problem is that they are cold water snails and will not usually make it very long in our systems. If you can keep them past the 6 week mark, usually they will make it a while.

Quote:
Treatment red slime alge killer. works for about 4 days. the bam back.
Red slime is not actually an algae. It is cyno bacteria. The treatments out there are designed to kill off the bacteria...but again, there is a problem. What is it that filters your tank? Bacteria. What happens when you start putting stuff in the water to kill off cyno BACTERIA? Im sure you can see the problem.

Quote:
LFS oh you need goby to stir sand.
The advise they are giving you is good, if your willing to pay the price. Goby's are great sand bed cleaners, but they will decimate the infauna population. The infauna is important because they are what keeps your DSB working. They are telling you to add more sand to create a DSB and telling you to add a goby. You cant do both...or at least you shouldnt.

See if I can keep this short... No infauna means that the DSB becomes stagnant. The bacteria excrete a sugary solution that binds the grains of sand together. Sulfides are then trapped in the DSB. If one of the pockets is ruptured (by someone or something disturbing the sand) the sulfides are released and they poison the tank. The solution is the infauna that naturally lives in the sand. They keep it "shifted" which keeps it from "Lumping" which prevents the sulfides from building up. Remove the infauna and you will eventually develop "lump syndrome."

Quote:
Sold me LR cured which i guess means that it is mostly killed all the worms ect.
Cured just means that it has gone through the die off process (infauna, sponges, micro and macro algaes...ect), built up the bacteria needed to begin handling the tanks bio load.

Quote:
Here is what they told me
1 I got the classic damsell die off cyle which could have been done with LR and I would have gotten something to keep instead of 6 little funerals.
It can also be done with a cocktail shrimp if you dont have LR.

Quote:
2 I need lots more sand 2-3 inches and could have use reg. instead of expensive live sand.
Just make sure its argonite...

Quote:
3. I need calcium in water for LR and corals
Unless you have something other than soft corals in your tank, the Ca from your water changes will be plenty.


Quote:
6 put snails goby, hemits ect. in new 5 gal gt for 30 days with new LR 15 lbs for 30 days
Alot of Reefers are going either "crabless" or with all scarlet hermit crabs. Blues and Zebra hermits are just too aggressive and are notorious for killing snails and other crabs.


Quote:
7 Add 1-2 fish every 2 weeks,
A better rule would be to test your water, make sure the levels stay with in the safe zones for the two weeks, then consider adding fish.


Quote:
10 water temp no higher than 78
I agree with ReefRunner...get the temp up to 80-82

Quote:
So will my tank get all this kind of stuff on the LR or will it take a year,
Be patient...Saltwater is definitely not a hobby for those who are hooked on immediate gratification. The growth and development will come...but not over night.

Squishy



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Old 03-30-2004, 03:53 AM   #5
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u should also try to come to my store, Corals and Reefs, we're in tulsa, and i guarantee you'll be happy
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Old 03-30-2004, 04:08 AM   #6
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just to be clear, i don't own the store, i work there
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Old 03-30-2004, 07:28 AM   #7
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Yikes!!!! I don't go to Petco for those specific reasons.....too many horror stories..Word
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Old 03-30-2004, 04:46 PM   #8
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Nice dissection job SQUISHY!
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Old 03-30-2004, 04:58 PM   #9
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Heh..you have no idea how long that post took!
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Old 03-30-2004, 05:14 PM   #10
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Quote:
Turbo snails are great for taking out algae, the problem is that they are cold water snails and will not usually make it very long in our systems.

Wished I had known that. I guess I'll stop buying turbo's and start looking for something else.
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