Sump Experts

[goisles1]

That is the best way to do it, but you won't hurt the pump by restricting the outflow until you get quite close to zero flow. Throttling the suction is a bad idea though, which may be what you were told.

Yeah could be...

it worked out great for me as I was able to build my sump with just 2 chambers. The right side is the refugium with my HOB AquaC skimmer. The second return line fills that section slowly and the water overflows into the return pump section on the left over the wall.

Works for me though I MUST use a filter sock as I do not have the standard bubble trap.

 

[jessicasmarine]

Given availability, I'd suggest a gate valve

what exactly does a gate valve look like

 

[gzeiger]

A gate valve is not desirable for this application, so don't look for that specifically. What he said was "given availability," meaning it's probably easier to find a gate valve (not sure why that would be true though).

A gate valve is pretty much what it sounds like - the threaded stem with the handle you turn pushes down a gate which stops flow through a straight piece of pipe. This design makes a more leak-tight isolation than most other valves, but it really isn't very good for precise adjustment of flow, which is what you want. A globe valve is a better design for this, and I think any valve in the plumbing aisle that isn't labelled with a type is probably going to be a globe valve.

 

[partypalooza5]

A gate valve is not desirable for this application, so don't look for that specifically. What he said was "given availability," meaning it's probably easier to find a gate valve (not sure why that would be true though).

Personally, I believe gate valves are for more precise control while ball valves are for on/off opperation. I have never seen plastic gate valves at Lowe's or HD or any store near me for that matter. I know they exist (otherwise why would they be mentioned) but they aren't as readily available as ball valves. (Plastic not brass btw)

 

[gzeiger]

Well, that's an interesting point. I guess I come from a different world. I didn't think about ball valves being the one commonly sold.

I will agree that a gate valve is definitely better than a ball valve for controlling flow rates. You really ought to be able to get a globe valve though.

 

[HN1]

Ball and globe valves are the same animal I believe.

Ball (globe) valves are definitely more readily available and gate valves are more precise. From what little I know, gate valves can create more turbulance through them and therefor more noise. If you can't find what you need at Lowe's / HD / Ace, etc. try googling plumbing supply stores in your area. I know I'll be much more picky and exacting on my next plumbing build.

 

[gzeiger]

They're not the same thing. A ball valve is a ball with a hole through it the same size as the rest of the pipe. The ball can be rotated by turning the handle, so if the hole in the ball lines up with the pipe you have flow and if it doesn't line up then flow is completely blocked.

A globe valve, by contrast, does not have straight-through flow. Rather, water enters from the inlet pipe, flows up through a hole (the valve seat), then continues to the outlet pipe, so the flow is more like this ___|``` The valve disc is attached to the threaded handle and is just a round piece of metal or plastic that screws down onto the seat to stop flow. As it approaches the seat, it throttles the opening to reduce the flow rate.

It's much easier to throttle with a globe valve because it takes multiple complete turns of the handle to thread it all the way down to the shut position, while the ball valve is fully shut before it's been turned 90 degrees.

 

[RazorbacksFan]

They're not the same thing. A ball valve is a ball with a hole through it the same size as the rest of the pipe. The ball can be rotated by turning the handle, so if the hole in the ball lines up with the pipe you have flow and if it doesn't line up then flow is completely blocked.

A globe valve, by contrast, does not have straight-through flow. Rather, water enters from the inlet pipe, flows up through a hole (the valve seat), then continues to the outlet pipe, so the flow is more like this ___|``` The valve disc is attached to the threaded handle and is just a round piece of metal or plastic that screws down onto the seat to stop flow. As it approaches the seat, it throttles the opening to reduce the flow rate.

It's much easier to throttle with a globe valve because it takes multiple complete turns of the handle to thread it all the way down to the shut position, while the ball valve is fully shut before it's been turned 90 degrees.

You really know your valves, you a plumber?

 

[gzeiger]

Navy mechanic. There are a surprising number of pipes in a nuclear plant, and more valves than you can possibly imagine for damage control on a warship.

 

[HN1]

My bad, you are completely right and triggered my memory (old age sucks). It's been awhile, I was Navy too but only had to learn the hydraulic stuff long enough to pass a qual board.

 

[jessicasmarine]

either way I have only used ball valves. They work fine for what I need. Just looking for more knowledge

 

[gzeiger]

Sure. As discussed previously, you don't actually need a precise adjustment for this application. As long as the capacity of the pump never exceeds the capacity of the overflow the worst thing that happens is a slightly reduced filtration flow.

 

[Etunes]

So which one are you guys are saying the best? Because thats alot of valves and they all seem to have there benefits. Should you just put them all on the plumbing of your sump and be fully prepared? *sarcasm*

 

[RazorbacksFan]

So which one are you guys are saying the best? Because thats alot of valves and they all seem to have there benefits. Should you just put them all on the plumbing of your sump and be fully prepared? *sarcasm*

Pretty much whatever is available for you will work they will all work fine for the application.

 

[partypalooza5]

I say use all the kinds of valves! You could leave the doors open and let people look inside and they would be like "WOW valves symbolize power!" or something crazy.. xD

OR you could just pick whatever is available... (less fun way)

 

[Zer0]

So when a pump says "Max. Head: 7.6ft" Does that mean that, thats the maximum height it can handle before the GPH that its rated for starts decreasing?

 

[CaptainAhab]

No, that means that is the maximum height before the GPH reaches ZERO

 

[CaptainAhab]

Sounds like a clog waiting to happen though no? Never heard of one honestly.. from the description it sounds like a problem waiting to happen in the Aq world.

They're not the same thing. A ball valve is a ball with a hole through it the same size as the rest of the pipe. The ball can be rotated by turning the handle, so if the hole in the ball lines up with the pipe you have flow and if it doesn't line up then flow is completely blocked.

A globe valve, by contrast, does not have straight-through flow. Rather, water enters from the inlet pipe, flows up through a hole (the valve seat), then continues to the outlet pipe, so the flow is more like this ___|``` The valve disc is attached to the threaded handle and is just a round piece of metal or plastic that screws down onto the seat to stop flow. As it approaches the seat, it throttles the opening to reduce the flow rate.

It's much easier to throttle with a globe valve because it takes multiple complete turns of the handle to thread it all the way down to the shut position, while the ball valve is fully shut before it's been turned 90 degrees.

 

[Zer0]

Then im just going to go ahead and get a return pump rated for 800+ GPH and then get a valve to control it. One of those split valves so the extra water gets redirected into the sump. I dont see any other way around it. Get a pump too small and im screwed, get one too big and im screwed. Get one thats too big, but control it with a valve.. better than nothing.

 

[partypalooza5]

I think I missed something, but why don't you just get a pump/overflow box with a close rating? That way you won't have to throttle the flow at all.

My overflow is like 800gph and my pump is almost 700 I think. (edit: actually only around 600 lol)