Total Nitrate VS Nitrate-Nitrogen

[ganiel]

've tried to google this issue and the more I got confused. What are we supposed to be monitoring? I've read in other threads that if you're using API to test for Nitrates that you jave to divide your readings by 4.4 Before reading those threads, I used to do a 25% PWC everytime I get a reading of 20 ppm using my API Saltwater Master Test kit. Could somebody help me understan this? I have a 150 gal tank and doing 25% PWC everytime I got 20 ppm reading is becoming so tiring. I greatly appreciate your replies.

 

[Barakis]

've tried to google this issue and the more I got confused. What are we supposed to be monitoring? I've read in other threads that if you're using API to test for Nitrates that you jave to divide your readings by 4.4 Before reading those threads, I used to do a 25% PWC everytime I get a reading of 20 ppm using my API Saltwater Master Test kit. Could somebody help me understan this? I have a 150 gal tank and doing 25% PWC everytime I got 20 ppm reading is becoming so tiring. I greatly appreciate your replies.

Firstly, if your doing 25% PWC on 20ppm, it will only drop your levels to 15, that is if your tests are properly compared. Try testing before and after water change and compare colors, you may find its dropping but not enough for a complete color change. If you want to get it lower, its simple maths. 50% pwc on 20ppm will leave your tank at 10ppm.

With nitrates, I too have had difficulty finding the rite info. As far as I can work out nitrates are the bad stuff, but a type of BB convert the nitrates into nitrogen gas (which is how it leaves the tank). The issue is that this type of BB is hard to grow as it doesn't like heavy water flow.

The API test kit gives you nitrate levels, which is what most people I know (especially on AA) use. Their is no /4.4.

This is all based on research not experience, as I don't own a reef yet, but hopefully someone can.back me.up.

 

[Ingy]

Agreed.
As for levels, if a 25% WC keeps your levels around 20ppm on a week to week basis, the only way to lower it via water changes is by increasing them (with fish in I'd not try to correct the problem too quickly as other parameters will also change).
Other methods of lowering nitrates are skimming, reduced feeding and plants. I'd try the reduced feeding method first. That lowered my nitrate levels by almost 80% within a few weeks all before I got my skimmer and fuge.

 

[Mrc8858]

I know what your talking about OP but to explain it you'll need ccapt to come give you a link or something. But the reason your dividing the api test (from what I know) is that it test for all nitrates which there are different forms of it which not all are harmful. Don't take my word on this but I think it is something along those lines. CCAPT where are you lol?

 

[ganiel]

Thanks to all replies. For Nitrates level, you guys are correct about having it reduced by approx 10 ppm with a 25% pwc. Im sorry I forgot to mention that my tank is just a month and half old and not fully matured yet. Also its unfortunate that I've already set it up before I discovered this site. Because of that I ended up with 2 Marineland C-360 canister filters (1 on each end) which I read that could also cause problems with Nitrates. I just installed a Coralife Super Skimmer 65G but I know may not be enough. I'm also going to change the media that I have in my filters with either GFO or Chemipure to hopefully help bring my nitrates to 0 so I can start transitioning to a reef tank maybe in the next 6 months or so when my system is already matured.

As for my Nitrates readings, those numbers I mentioned above are direct readings and has not been divided by 4.4 So if the correct way is to divide by 4.4 then my 20 ppm is actually 4.54 If that is the case then I dont really need the 25% pwc. That's why it would greatly help me if I can understand the difference. Once again thanks to all your replies.

 

[Grizz]

Don't divide and back up your test results with a free water test at your LFS Your test kit can fail and give false readings

 

[reefrunner69]

Unfortunately there is a difference between total nitrate and nitrate-nitrogen. And the difference is 4.4X heavier or lighter, depending on which way you are converting.

API is the only test kit I know of that measures total nitrate, all the others I have used measure nitrate-nitrogen, these are not the same thing! Api's test instructions tell you in black and white that it's results will be 4.4 times higher than other test kits and they recommend you keep your nitrates <40ppm. The question is which do you use? Total nitrate or nitrate-nitrogen. Personally I think we should strive for 0 which will read the same on any kit. Also from doing a little reading, API is notorious for reading nitrates high, get a more reliable kit like salifert, which also (from some spontaneous research) measures NO3, aka "total nitrate".

If you test nitrates with API and get 40ppm with a other test kits it will be ~9.09 or the closest color to that number.

 

[Sniperhank]

Thanks to all replies. For Nitrates level, you guys are correct about having it reduced by approx 10 ppm with a 25% pwc. Im sorry I forgot to mention that my tank is just a month and half old and not fully matured yet. Also its unfortunate that I've already set it up before I discovered this site. Because of that I ended up with 2 Marineland C-360 canister filters (1 on each end) which I read that could also cause problems with Nitrates. I just installed a Coralife Super Skimmer 65G but I know may not be enough. I'm also going to change the media that I have in my filters with either GFO or Chemipure to hopefully help bring my nitrates to 0 so I can start transitioning to a reef tank maybe in the next 6 months or so when my system is already matured.

As for my Nitrates readings, those numbers I mentioned above are direct readings and has not been divided by 4.4 So if the correct way is to divide by 4.4 then my 20 ppm is actually 4.54 If that is the case then I dont really need the 25% pwc. That's why it would greatly help me if I can understand the difference. Once again thanks to all your replies.

Just make sure you are cleaning those 2 canisters with your weekly water changes. That is an easy place for buildup and can cause nitrate issues.

As for GFO and chemipure, I currently run both on my 55 reef and have no complaints about it. The GFO has done a great job. The chemipure hasn't been in a month yet, so all I can say about the results would be that my water is a tad clearer than it was with straight carbon.

 

[crister13]

So I should be dividing my API test by 4.4????? Or leave it?

 

[Barakis]

So I should be dividing my API test by 4.4????? Or leave it?

Can I clear one thing up?

Are you using a salt water kit on fresh water? Or have you already converted your tank to salt water?

Asuming you arr using the rite test with the rite water, API tests read total nitrate. So don't divide, and keep the readings bellow about 10, however 20 is just about acceptable.

 

[crister13]

I know acceptable levels and stuff my tank has been running a year and a half. Saltwater test on saltwater. I was just wondering how what tests should we be using? The total nitrate ones or the nitrate-nitrogen ones???? Having both tests is a little weird. Someone could say their nitrates are at 2 and someone else with the exact same parameters would say 8.8...... It just doesnt make sense.

 

[ganiel]

This is according to the manual that comes with the API Saltwater Master Test Kit: " Testing Tips. This test kit reads total nitrate level in milligrams per liter (mg/L) from 0 ppm to 160 ppm, in saltwater aquariums. This test kit measures measures nitrate as nitrate ion or "total nitrate" (Other nitrate test kits that measure "nitrate-nitrogen" will give readings 4.4 times LESS than this test kit"

We understand that our goal should be to have 0 nitrates but my question is : What do we monitor, total nitrates or nitrate-nitrogen?

This is important to me because I'm doing 25% pwc on a 150 gal tank with readings of 20 ppm ( direct reading without dividing by 4.4) If we need to divide our readings by 4.4, then what Im doing is doing pwc with my nitrate at 4.54 ppm which is still good if I'm just running a FOWLR tank.

It is obvious that we have 2 opinons on this. I need help to clarify this issue.

Thanks again.

 

[Ingy]

Nitrate-nitrogen term is used to differentiate it from other forms of NITROGEN, not nitrates. That is to say there is:
Nitrate-nitrogen,
Nitrite-nitrogen, and
Ammonia-nitrogen.

That is compared to TOTAL-nitrogen which encompasses all 3.

As we are concerned about The various forms of nitrogen is the aquarium, we use the specific terms. However, in food industries they are concerned about only Total-nitrogen as they consider it all 1 evil entity in food as it may all break down to nitrates or be present as ammonia.

Why API says they use a different scale, idk.

 

[Grizz]

I test for NitrAtes Not NitrAtes-Nitrogen I would think it all boils to what test are you using If it's an API then test for NitrAtes

 

[crister13]

But, for example, if API reads 80, than should someone not be concerned because it would be read as ~20 on another kit????

 

[Grizz]

If it was reading the same thing NitrAtes only then yes but if it's reading NitrAtes-Nitrogen then no This is why i have my LFS confirm my test results. What your doing is comparing inches to millimeters 1 in. = 25 mil. it's just two different ways to get the same thing.

 

[Barakis]

But, for example, if API reads 80, than should someone not be concerned because it would be read as ~20 on another kit????

API is recommended everywhere on AA to all users, so we all give the same advice. Fact is, most other tests are not as accurate anyway. I know in f/w the number is total nitrates, I'm afraid I'm not sure about salt.

 

[reefrunner69]

But, for example, if API reads 80, than should someone not be concerned because it would be read as ~20 on another kit????

This thread has made me do some more research. According to Randy Holmes-Farley, If testing for Nitrate-Nitrogen...multiply X 4.4. (see here for the thread on RC) Nitrate (not nitrate-nitrogen) is what we need to test for, however most resources, I have read, have said Salifert (which also tests for total nitrate) tests much lower than API.


I have to apologize for the confusion, and misinformation since I am probably the reason most are questioning what scale to use.

 

[reefrunner69]

API is recommended everywhere on AA to all users, so we all give the same advice. Fact is, most other tests are not as accurate anywaysalt.

If this were correct, which I think is not the case, it would be the first time that the least expensive product was the most accurate product. That's not to say the most expensive is always the best, but IME, the least expensive is never the most accurate/best. Although it's most likely "good enough" and the least expensive, which is why it is recommended.

 

[ganiel]

So...again...as to my question...do we monitor Nitrate Ion(Total Nitrate) or Nitrate-Nitrogen?