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Old 12-15-2003, 09:53 PM   #11
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Thank you for your help.. But me and the tank are going to war..I despratly need your help.. I did by all but the reef advantage and the reef complete because they did not have those.. But also I did by a calcium test that I ran prior to doing anything... It was 250 yes 250. So it seems that there is no wonder I am having problems.. How that Crab is thriving is beyond me.. I just never thought to check it being a newb.. But I think cycling with the LR after the die off it just sucked everything out of the water.. So I bought new salt.. Instead of IO I got the Reef Crystals (by the same company) but it said that it had alot more of the emements and Ca.. I went to the RO only tonight (time to get seroious) did a 10% water change put in the reef calcium added the advantage b and the reef plus.. I will find the other 2 today.. After all that it came up to 300pm Still awful but a small step in the right direction.. I have no idea how it got that low But That seems to be the problem.. So RO only I will turn the lights on 12 hours a day as per your advice..Also keep doing the water changes and ride the supplements back up to the Ca at least 400 I would like 450 though..Do you guys think this will be enough to do or should I just be doing the changes and leave out the supplements..I just need to get this back up to acceptable and fast but I don't wanna nuke the poor tank.. Thank you so much for convincing me that even though My tank has cycled to hold off on the fish.. That makes the war so much easier.. Please give me any imput you have.. I really need the help..

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Old 12-15-2003, 10:02 PM   #12
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Either will yield the same result depending on if the saltmix is properly balanced. It may also not achieve the levels you desire in the end. Test the Reef Crystals after a fresh batch is made and aged a day to see what the levels are. That will indicate what the best solution would be. If the saltmix is up to par, it might be a bit less guess work and make it a bit easier than messing with chems you are not yet familiar with....

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Old 12-16-2003, 09:10 AM   #13
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Well as soon as I read your post steve I put a batch together and let it sit over night.. the problem is I tested it this morning and it only came out to 350ppm. This creates quite a problem.. I really need to get this up. I agree messing with all the other stuff is a bit crazy at the point I am at I just want to get the Calcium up to a good lvl and I really doubt the rock will continue to have problems.. I am reading the test instructions for the calcium and it says all tap water has about 100ppm calcium so adding 350 would be a good mix... But seeing as how I used the RO it must have nothing left So I need to find a way to get that up.. The seachem calcium will maintian it once I get it there.. SO if anyone knows how to bring up the calcium please let me know..

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Old 12-16-2003, 11:43 AM   #14
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What was the alkalinity at? This is equally important when dealing with the chemistry as they must both be balanced. There is an easy to use calculator <<here>> that will tell you what the balanced numbers should be. Remember though, do not drive yourself nuts looking for exact numbers. They just need be in the right area's.

If you purchased the Seachem Reef calcium, that will be the easiest solution. Basically any liquid CaCl product will do though. What was the water volume mixed up 5 gal?

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Old 12-16-2003, 12:26 PM   #15
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The calculator Steve posted is great, I use it alot myself, but like he said, don't kill yourself trying to get it "perfect" as perfect has a different definition for each tank. Your looking for the right range.

Here is an article that may help.
Solving Calcium and Alkalinity Problems
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Old 12-16-2003, 12:55 PM   #16
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Quote:
How that Crab is thriving is beyond me.. I just never thought to check it being a newb..
Because crabs and many other tank inhabitants are not dependent on calcium. I'm still in the dark as to how old your tank is, but it appears to be really pretty newly set up. If this is true, I would not worry much about the specific levels of calcium, etc. at all as a new tank is often quite volatile.

Specifically at 350ppm, I would not be concerned with raising it at this point, I think your desperation over the matter is not as critical as you currently believe. I would point more to other reasons why your liverock bleached such as the cycle, lack of lighting, etc.
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Old 12-16-2003, 02:50 PM   #17
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Wow I went to lunch and as always you guys came through with imput.. Ok first I mixed it in a bucket with ro water and it came out to 350ppm Well that kinda upset me so I called Aquarium Systems.. He said that it comes out to 450ppm at .034 salinaty..That is good to know That if you dump way more salt in than anything could live in you will eventually get the right amount of calcium.. What a crock... Ok Yes My tank has been up about 3.5 weeks now..Ok next thing I have no Idea what my Alk is and the stupid po dunk town LFS has no tests So I have to drive down to Pittsburgh tonight and try to find one..But he did give me some kent marine TURBO calcium and a Red sea buffer.. He told me before I go crazy try the buffer and the calcium and just breathe which I actually needed to hear..So I think I have that situation under control. He also said that I need to remember that when I droped in the 50 lbs of live rock my Ammonia spiked at 5 it was literally off the charts and that in turn so were my nitrites etc... he said ammonia of 2 would kill a fish but to think of it like this.. The water was extremely toxic and that I may still be having some die off due to having my rock in the toxic water for that long while it cycled..He said it may not have all died at first but that some of it is still slowly dying now (he said to think of it like smoking it may not kill you right away but in the end it will) He told me add the buffer, bring that calcium up if I am that uptight about it do another water change if I want and then drink a beer and relax for a few days..He also told me that I need to add a fish pretty quick cause if I let it sit to long the bacteria will not have food and It will cycle again when I do add a fish..But I dont' know at that point if he meant it or was trying to sell me a fish.. I didn't buy one.. What do you guys think??
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Old 12-16-2003, 03:15 PM   #18
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ReefRunner:
thats a great article Kevin! So are the guidlines for testing and adjusting the levels given in that article basicaly what you go by for your system?

Doan:
Quote:
Ok Yes My tank has been up about 3.5 weeks now.
Quote:
before I go crazy ... just breathe
your LFS has some good advice (for a change) and also some typical advice. His advice on relaxing and being patient are spot on! His advice on the fish and chemicals are typical.

IMO: you tank is EXTREEMLY young yet. Take a look at our article on Cycle Without Fish that should give you a quick guide on how long a cycle can take and what is going on in your tank. (and also why you don't need to buy that fish yet)

I would avoid adding chemicals to your tank until your system has completely cycled and the LR is cured. once that happens, do a water large water change 20-25%. Let the tank settle for a couple days. Test your levels and go from there.

Hope that helps.
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Old 12-16-2003, 03:22 PM   #19
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It helps alot but the actual Ammonia nitrate and nitrite all went up and down in about 10 days .. nothing has changed in about 2 weeks and i have been testing every other day.. The LR did a great job of cycling I just hope it is not a goner because of it..The reaso I started to look at other stuff is because I wanted to get started with some fish after christmas.. But I just want to make sure everything is ready when it finally comes to that..


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Old 12-16-2003, 04:00 PM   #20
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The fact that the tank is brand new makes sense for everything IMO. I agree that the LFS was correct to be patient, but I don't think that you have to add a fish right away since you have an abundance of liverock in there. You have established marine life on the rock (whether you can see it or not) that will be going through it's life cycle and continuing the nitrogen cycle. If you feel it necessary, add a bit of fish food to the tank every few days.

I would still recommend allowing the tank to mature for a few months before you start trying to manipulate the conditions with buffers and additions. The initial cycle is a fairly brutal process, and with the fluctuations in PH and everything else it is no wonder that test results may not be perfect.

FWIW, unless you are planning a stony tank, I also feel that the calcium being at 350ppm is perfectly acceptable.
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