Uhhhh White LR spreading...Help Please

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Doan

Aquarium Advice Freak
Joined
Nov 24, 2003
Messages
410
Location
Pittsburgh PA
Hello all about a week and a half ago regarding live Rock turning white at the time I had a little white but had kinda just attributed it to Die off. Problem is it's spreading, fast.. Literally every day when I turn on the light more and more of it is white.. The whole thing checks out am nitrate nitrite ph wise.. I am really getting concerned.. At first it was just like a film covering the rock but that it gone and now the rock itself it just turning white.. I am really getting scared...The only thing that seems to be thriving in my tank is algea which has moved onto the glass and it literally covering my whole tank sand rock glass the whole nine, but that is another post.. Funny enought the only reason I can see the white is because the algae won't even grow on it..Ahhh very scared...do I need to add calcium, alk(no Idea what it is or what to do with it) Just I am really having problems with the rock...It is a good thing I listened to you guys and have no fish however my 1 emerald crab is in his glory.. Stupid snials can't keep up with the algae.. Is is mabye too much light?? I have the lights blue and white on from about 6pm-1130pm everynight trying to keep the algea down (which is not working) but the room you know is lit up all day so it's only actually dark for about 6 hrs in there.. Or is it not enough light??Please help..

Thanks
DoanHello all I saw a pos
 
Thanks I will pick up some after work.. What do you think I would need Seachem Reef Advantage and SeaChem Reef Builder??

Thanks

Doan
 
I do this:

Reef advantage calcium
Reef Builder

ALternate these in your topoff water. For instance when your water gets low, top off with reef advantage calcium added to your topoff water, then the next time it gets low, topoff with reef builder added to your topoff water, repeat.

Twice a week add one capful per 20 gals of these:

SeaChem Reef Plus
SeaChem Reef Complete
SeChem Reef Calcium

ALso you could do 10% water changes weekly to build up the minerals in your tank. The new synthetic saltwater will do this.

THese guys on this forum will tell you to check levels before you dose and I do not disagree with that one teeny bit, but this formula is just one that GARF uses on all tanks and it should be pretty safe while you are getting the hang of checking levels and stuff.

Just my 2cents.
 
The Nuisance algae is really not about Light. They thrive in low light as well. I will cultivate the good algae and turn the light back to the normal. I had diatoms problem 2 months ago and the 1st thing I did is to shorten the light period and it does not help. Then I do the reverse such that I extend my light period 12hrs and my Corraline Algae began to thrive. Within 3 weeks, my diatoms problem goes away and my Macro Algae is thriving. The reasoning behind is that the good algae will fight for the nutrient and starve the bad algae.

Buying more cured LR with good algae will also help. As for the white stuffs on the LR, I got no idea.
 
How old is your tank? I would hesitate to add either of the products mentioned unless you have tested your water and have found a problem with calcium or alk. Otherwise, you could do much more damage than good.

Is the live rock new? Are the areas that are now white, were they formerly colored (purple, red, etc.)? It sounds to me like the rock could simply be bleaching which could be caused by a variety of things.
 
How old is your tank? I would hesitate to add either of the products mentioned unless you have tested your water and have found a problem with calcium or alk. Otherwise, you could do much more damage than good.
Click to expand...
I agree I would not add anything unless you test first and an hour or so later.. Never add anything you are not testing for..

LR can alot of the time bleech when it is new.. or possible when there is not enough light on it.. If you are cycling with the lights off that could be the reason.. Aslo if you are cycling then that could be the issue as well..

HTH<
James
 
Yah, I put the cart before the horse there but all of those supplements are IMO needed anyway, sorry my bad. You should always test before you dose, I agree. You don't want to get into some ionic imbalance situation because that could be hard to correct. But with that supplement scedule it would take a while to "mess anything up" I was thinking.

I was also thinking that the supplemental schedule would be good to start with and then adjust accordingly. I was upside down on that.
 
I would also add that these products if needed are also better dosed within the same day rather than seperate days. It will cause less problems in future with unbalaced chemistry. Reef builder being an alkalinity product would best be dosed in the early AM just before or near when the light come on and the Advantage calcium later in the day. When done like this, one will have less impact on the other as they are added.

When doing on seperate days, it gives time for the chems to fall off a bit allowing the newer addition to force down the other.

Hope that made sense... :?:

Cheers
Steve
 
Thank you for your help.. But me and the tank are going to war..I despratly need your help.. I did by all but the reef advantage and the reef complete because they did not have those.. But also I did by a calcium test that I ran prior to doing anything... It was 250 yes 250. So it seems that there is no wonder I am having problems.. How that Crab is thriving is beyond me.. I just never thought to check it being a newb.. But I think cycling with the LR after the die off it just sucked everything out of the water.. So I bought new salt.. Instead of IO I got the Reef Crystals (by the same company) but it said that it had alot more of the emements and Ca.. I went to the RO only tonight (time to get seroious) did a 10% water change put in the reef calcium added the advantage b and the reef plus.. I will find the other 2 today.. After all that it came up to 300pm Still awful but a small step in the right direction.. I have no idea how it got that low But That seems to be the problem.. So RO only I will turn the lights on 12 hours a day as per your advice..Also keep doing the water changes and ride the supplements back up to the Ca at least 400 I would like 450 though..Do you guys think this will be enough to do or should I just be doing the changes and leave out the supplements..I just need to get this back up to acceptable and fast but I don't wanna nuke the poor tank.. Thank you so much for convincing me that even though My tank has cycled to hold off on the fish.. That makes the war so much easier.. Please give me any imput you have.. I really need the help..

Thanks

Doan
 
Either will yield the same result depending on if the saltmix is properly balanced. It may also not achieve the levels you desire in the end. Test the Reef Crystals after a fresh batch is made and aged a day to see what the levels are. That will indicate what the best solution would be. If the saltmix is up to par, it might be a bit less guess work and make it a bit easier than messing with chems you are not yet familiar with....

Cheers
Steve
 
Well as soon as I read your post steve I put a batch together and let it sit over night.. the problem is I tested it this morning and it only came out to 350ppm. This creates quite a problem.. I really need to get this up. I agree messing with all the other stuff is a bit crazy at the point I am at I just want to get the Calcium up to a good lvl and I really doubt the rock will continue to have problems.. I am reading the test instructions for the calcium and it says all tap water has about 100ppm calcium so adding 350 would be a good mix... But seeing as how I used the RO it must have nothing left So I need to find a way to get that up.. The seachem calcium will maintian it once I get it there.. SO if anyone knows how to bring up the calcium please let me know..

Thanks

Doan
 
What was the alkalinity at? This is equally important when dealing with the chemistry as they must both be balanced. There is an easy to use calculator <<here>> that will tell you what the balanced numbers should be. Remember though, do not drive yourself nuts looking for exact numbers. They just need be in the right area's.

If you purchased the Seachem Reef calcium, that will be the easiest solution. Basically any liquid CaCl product will do though. What was the water volume mixed up 5 gal?

Cheers
Steve
 
How that Crab is thriving is beyond me.. I just never thought to check it being a newb..
Click to expand...

Because crabs and many other tank inhabitants are not dependent on calcium. I'm still in the dark as to how old your tank is, but it appears to be really pretty newly set up. If this is true, I would not worry much about the specific levels of calcium, etc. at all as a new tank is often quite volatile.

Specifically at 350ppm, I would not be concerned with raising it at this point, I think your desperation over the matter is not as critical as you currently believe. I would point more to other reasons why your liverock bleached such as the cycle, lack of lighting, etc.
 
Wow I went to lunch and as always you guys came through with imput.. Ok first I mixed it in a bucket with ro water and it came out to 350ppm Well that kinda upset me so I called Aquarium Systems.. He said that it comes out to 450ppm at .034 salinaty..That is good to know That if you dump way more salt in than anything could live in you will eventually get the right amount of calcium.. What a crock... Ok Yes My tank has been up about 3.5 weeks now..Ok next thing I have no Idea what my Alk is and the stupid po dunk town LFS has no tests So I have to drive down to Pittsburgh tonight and try to find one..But he did give me some kent marine TURBO calcium and a Red sea buffer.. He told me before I go crazy try the buffer and the calcium and just breathe which I actually needed to hear..So I think I have that situation under control. He also said that I need to remember that when I droped in the 50 lbs of live rock my Ammonia spiked at 5 it was literally off the charts and that in turn so were my nitrites etc... he said ammonia of 2 would kill a fish but to think of it like this.. The water was extremely toxic and that I may still be having some die off due to having my rock in the toxic water for that long while it cycled..He said it may not have all died at first but that some of it is still slowly dying now (he said to think of it like smoking it may not kill you right away but in the end it will) He told me add the buffer, bring that calcium up if I am that uptight about it do another water change if I want and then drink a beer and relax for a few days..He also told me that I need to add a fish pretty quick cause if I let it sit to long the bacteria will not have food and It will cycle again when I do add a fish..But I dont' know at that point if he meant it or was trying to sell me a fish.. I didn't buy one.. What do you guys think??
Doan
 
ReefRunner:
thats a great article Kevin! So are the guidlines for testing and adjusting the levels given in that article basicaly what you go by for your system?

Doan:
Ok Yes My tank has been up about 3.5 weeks now.
Click to expand...
before I go crazy ... just breathe
Click to expand...
your LFS has some good advice (for a change) and also some typical advice. His advice on relaxing and being patient are spot on! His advice on the fish and chemicals are typical.

IMO: you tank is EXTREEMLY young yet. Take a look at our article on Cycle Without Fish that should give you a quick guide on how long a cycle can take and what is going on in your tank. (and also why you don't need to buy that fish yet)

I would avoid adding chemicals to your tank until your system has completely cycled and the LR is cured. once that happens, do a water large water change 20-25%. Let the tank settle for a couple days. Test your levels and go from there.

Hope that helps.
 
It helps alot but the actual Ammonia nitrate and nitrite all went up and down in about 10 days .. nothing has changed in about 2 weeks and i have been testing every other day.. The LR did a great job of cycling I just hope it is not a goner because of it..The reaso I started to look at other stuff is because I wanted to get started with some fish after christmas.. But I just want to make sure everything is ready when it finally comes to that..


Thanks

Doan
 
The fact that the tank is brand new makes sense for everything IMO. I agree that the LFS was correct to be patient, but I don't think that you have to add a fish right away since you have an abundance of liverock in there. You have established marine life on the rock (whether you can see it or not) that will be going through it's life cycle and continuing the nitrogen cycle. If you feel it necessary, add a bit of fish food to the tank every few days.

I would still recommend allowing the tank to mature for a few months before you start trying to manipulate the conditions with buffers and additions. The initial cycle is a fairly brutal process, and with the fluctuations in PH and everything else it is no wonder that test results may not be perfect.

FWIW, unless you are planning a stony tank, I also feel that the calcium being at 350ppm is perfectly acceptable.
 
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