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Old 04-23-2004, 01:52 AM   #1
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ulcerated angel

What's up with this fish? My passer angel has ulcerations on his side, the largest is a little deep. He just had a third open up. It looked like a little black spot on his side. I need some ideas on treatment. This is in my commuity tank (no inverts), so the field is open. Any ideas? He is still swimming fine & eating like a pig. Sorry about the bad photos, but he wouldn't hold still long enough for a good close up.

Right now, I'm treating the tank with melaflex & maracyn (for any secondary infections), a combination recommended by the lfs. Is this good or should I use a different strategy. I'm feeding a frozen mix w/ garlic added.
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Old 04-23-2004, 11:32 AM   #2
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What is in the tank with teh angel? Please describe your water conditions also.
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Old 04-23-2004, 11:41 AM   #3
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Re: ulcerated angel

Quote:
Originally Posted by bre's dad
Right now, I'm treating the tank with melaflex & maracyn (for any secondary infections), a combination recommended by the lfs. Is this good or should I use a different strategy. I'm feeding a frozen mix w/ garlic added.
The Maracyn will help with the infection although I personally find Melafix to be widely overrated. Even though a community tank, treating in the display is not wise, especially with antibiotics. They will destroy the bio filter in the tank along with whatever you are trying to treat. Be very sure you monitor the NH3 and NO2 closely. I would try getting a QT set up and transfer the fish over there as soon as possible and discontinue the treatment in the main tank.

The area behind the gill looks like Lymphocystis, in which case there is no readily available cure except time and above average water quality. Most often feeding with a good marine vitamin containing [acronym="Highly Unsaturated Fatty Acid"]HUFA[/acronym] and essencial lipids along with increased water changes with well aged aerated SW is the best remedy. Typically this is one of those problems that the fish must overcome on it's own.

The small gash in the side of the fish is rather worrysome and may be an indication of aggression from other fish. I would keep close tabs on that. If the Melafix is good for anything, it may help with that.

Cheers
Steve
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Old 04-23-2004, 03:31 PM   #4
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Here's the breakdown in the tank:

6" lion (3 months)
3" bursa trigger (2 months)
5" foxface (1 yr)
2" purple tang (2 wk)
4" passer angel (1 month)

tank is a 75 gal up & running about a year. the biological filter came off another tank that had been up about 6 months. mechanical filtration comes from a Fluval 403. Skimmer is a SeaClone 200, currently on my reef tank (have to replace venturi on reef skimmer).

Ammonia is less than .25 ppm
Nitrite is less than .10 ppm
Nitrate is about .20 ppm

I just fed the tank yesterday, hence the elevated levels.

There was a 4" powder blue tang in the tank when the passer was introduced. The passer & tang were separated via a divider. I tried a few times to put the two together, but the tang would of course try to spar the angel, so it was removed & replaced w/ the purple tang, who hasn't gone near the angel. THe blue tang was around the angel for a few days. The wounds started appearing about a week & a half later. Right now, the angel runs the tank. No one seems to bother him (when me or the wife watch the tank).
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Old 04-23-2004, 03:37 PM   #5
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Most often feeding with a good marine vitamin containing [acronym="Highly Unsaturated Fatty Acid"]HUFA[/acronym] and essencial lipids
is there a spscific food you would recommend?
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Old 04-24-2004, 02:44 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bre's dad
Here's the breakdown in the tank:

6" lion (3 months)
3" bursa trigger (2 months)
5" foxface (1 yr)
2" purple tang (2 wk)
4" passer angel (1 month)

tank is a 75 gal up & running about a year.
I am not sure if you are aware of this but that is a fair amount of stock for a 75 gal tank. Aside from possible future aggression, it's going to get quite cramped in there soon. Those are all quite large growing and active fish. Be prepared to upgrade the tank size soon!

Quote:
Ammonia is less than .25 ppm
Nitrite is less than .10 ppm
Nitrate is about .20 ppm

I just fed the tank yesterday, hence the elevated levels.
If you have already begun the Maracyn additions, these levels will be the result. The antibiotic kills of the bacteria that converts them to less harmfull elements.

If this is a normal result of feeding, you should try cutting back on the amounts you feed and increase the frequencey of water changes. There should be no increase in NH3 or NO2 after feedings unless there was something slightly there in the first place. Might also be an idea to review your filtration set up. The bioload is rather large and without proper filtration you will have further issues.

Lymphocystis is generally the result of high DOC's and other polutants that allow destructive bacteria's to grow. I would still suggest QT'ing the angel but at the very least 2x weekly water changes will help immensely. Make sure you use well aged and aerated SW.

For this kind of problem I would recommend Selcon but Zoecon is also a good alternative. It's not the greatest for daily use but a great immune booster when needed. If for daily additions after this problem has passed, I would recommend Kent Zoe. It does not have the same [acronym="Highly Unsaturated Fatty Acid"]HUFA[/acronym] and essential lipids but is a great vitamin additive that will not affect water quality as the other can if used too frequently.

Cheers
Steve
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Old 04-24-2004, 03:58 PM   #7
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We are in the process of remodeling the basement, included is a 125. We're probably 2 months away from setting it up. It will be a straight move in from the 75.

THe filtration set up I'm using is designed for a 150 (was used on a 125 for quite a while.)

Normaly, I feed 2x week flake or frozen, 2x live for the lion & there is always romaine or some sort of greens for everyone else.

I just assumed the slight rise in levels was due to feeding. I don't think I over feed (if you think I am, please let me know).

Unfortunatly I don't have a QT set up. Had to tear it down while playing musical furniture while moving things out of the basement.

I could take some rock out of my reef & throw in a 20L as a quick fix for a QT.
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Old 04-24-2004, 10:23 PM   #8
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Your not feeding too often and might not be feeding too much but definately something to be mindful of. As I said, the antibiotic (if used) would definately cause those readings.

As for the QT, I would leave off the rock. Take whatever media is in the Fluval and transfer that over. There may still be enough bacteria to reduce a large cycle. Be sure not to use carbon when treating though.

Once/if the fish is transfered, be sure to run with some carbon on the diplay (changed a few times) or use a polyfilter and a few good water changes. That will get rid of the med and allow the biofilter to recover faster.

Cheers
Steve
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Old 04-24-2004, 10:59 PM   #9
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wou;dn't cycling, even minimal, in the QT stress the angel?
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Old 04-25-2004, 04:02 PM   #10
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Yes it will. I was assuming you where using the med because there is an infection present If not then I have misunderstood. You do not need to treat the fish unless the wound becomes infected. It is best if you can QT injured fish but if there is no aggressive behavior from other fish (or no other fish in some cases), vitamin fortified foods and excellent water quality will help just as much. Since you have the 20 gal handy, I would still suggest having it set up and ready just in case.

FWIW, the med will have no affect on the lymphocystis.

Cheers
Steve
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