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Old 10-25-2004, 02:26 PM   #21
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Now that you describe it Steve, I have heard that somewhere before. Thanks for clarifying.
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Old 10-25-2004, 02:29 PM   #22
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ok, im just getting more confused, sooo a ugf will produce nitrates? but then the live rock/sand will get rid of it? or it produces detritus which will hurt my tank? or the ugf will work with a light bioload, so bad for a reef tank? um, im confused, basically i wanted the look of sand anyways so i was leaning taht way for my reef, but that would mean having to buy a new filter, and if that was the case, i dunno what id do, i have the two powerheads for movement, but then i dunno where id go so im still undecided, im still confused on if a ugf will harm /help/ or be indifferent to the reef tank in its filtration
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Old 10-25-2004, 02:54 PM   #23
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its not so much that UGF's "produce" nitrates but is more that the denitrification process stops at the Nitrate stage because the bacteria to remove the nitrates needs an anoxic region to exist. This is the same reason why many SW tanks now also steer clear of wet-dry trickle filters. They're great for FO systems, but the denitrification stops at the Nitrate stage which inverts cannot tolerate. Sand beds and LR allow for anoxic regions where that last stage of denitrification can occur.

Back to your original post, you mentioned the non-UGF approach to be much more expensive and complicated. That's not true. Sumps, refugiums, skimmers etc are not a necessity. Many folks use them and they DO benefit a SW aquarium but they don't have to be part of the system for a SW tank to survive. I don't have any of that stuff in my 55. My complete system consists of CC/LS substrate, about 50-60 LBS or LR (I need more), a Heater and PHs and Pumps for water movement. Thats it, literaly. I have perfect Ph, Sg, 0 ammonia, nitrites, nitrates (this sometimes creeps up to about 5 at the most). I only do water changes maybe once a month at the most. My tank takes care of itself. It's been up for almost 2 years now I think... This is why I give a lot of weight to the berlin method.
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Old 10-25-2004, 07:10 PM   #24
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Basically if you want to use the ugf then use it. We are simply stating why we don't use it. Any system can be made to work including the ugf it just takes more maintenance to keep it healthy.
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Old 10-25-2004, 09:16 PM   #25
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No need for argument as we are all continually learning things we never knew before.
I have 2-90's, 2-75's, a 65 and a 55 that are all heavily skimmed, are all barebottomed, and all have live rock in them for the bio-logical filtration as there is no other filter of any kind in any of these tanks. I have no detectable ammonia, nitrite, or nitrates at any time.
These tanks have been long term set ups, the first 90 was just over 9 yrs ago, and the youngest set up is over two years old now.
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Old 10-25-2004, 10:24 PM   #26
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ok, another question, you mention "berlin method" whats that, and what exactly does a protein skimmer do? and are canister filters worth the investment, or just expensive opverkill or what like an Eheim 2026 Professionel II or osmething of the sort
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Old 10-25-2004, 10:38 PM   #27
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I feel myself a canister filter isn't worth the price you pay. Myself I have an ac500 for carbon and pretty much for water flow(well I modified it to hold my skimmer and heater) and I have lots of live rock and good sand and that's it. I was struggling with nitrates myself for a while until I got my skimmer. A skimmer uses air bubbles to remove all kinds of things-organic compounds,toxic metals,etc(do a google search on protein skimmers).
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Old 10-25-2004, 10:41 PM   #28
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With regards to cannister filtration, that is all up to the individual hobbyist. Many people use them with great success so how can anyone say they are no good. It's only my opinion that I don't need them for the method I choose.
(I do use a fluval 403 for vaccuming a tank after cleaning)
Protein skimming is a method to remove dissolved organics from the water before they break down into ammonia, thus lessening the load on the bio-logical filter.
The Berlin method as it was known in the middle 90's when I started (Jan 94) was heavy protein skimming and a lot of quality live rock.
I believe the original Berlin method years before in Europe, included a thin layer of substrate instead of the bare bottom that I started with.
This was the ideal set up for me as it was very economical and I could build my own skimmer and the filtration expense was just live rock which I would have wanted anyway.
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Old 10-25-2004, 10:56 PM   #29
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read the post I never said they were no good
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Old 10-25-2004, 11:15 PM   #30
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If that remark was directed to me, you read the times.
While you were posting I was writing and at my post time I was unaware you had even posted.
My response was just my opinion replying to "i like fish"
I see nothing wrong with your reply about cannister filters as everyone has a right to their opinion, and there is not necessarily a right and a wrong, more, a preference.
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