Water changes while Cycling ??

[2nicewitit]

Okay, tank has been up and running for about 3 weeks now. I have about 80lbs of LR that came from a mature tank. Nitrites 0, Amonia 0, PH approx 8.2-8.4. though nitrates have been steadily between 20 and 40 during the past weeks.

Now i've been told i have to wait until nitrates are basically 0 and to reduce nitrates i'm to conduct regular water changes.

So, should just wait it out and wait until they magically become zero or should i be conducting water changes to help this process. Thanks guys.

 

[Ziggy953]

It sounds to me like your cycle is complete. You want to see your NitrItes drop to 0 and your NitrAtes go up. That is when you do a PWC. You do the PWCs to reduce the NitrAtes in the system.

I think you are ready for a good sized PWC.

 

[melosu58]

Now i've been told i have to wait until nitrates are basically 0 and to reduce nitrates i'm to conduct regular water changes.

Wait till ammonia and nitrites are 0 then do a PWC to lower the nitrates.

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

Hmmm... several questions come to mind:

Did you see your ammonia and nitrites levels go up, and then come back down to zero? Are you using RO/DI water, or tap?

Since you're showing nitrates, I'm *assuming* that your ammonia/nitrites spiked and you're looking at the end of the cycle. But if your ammonia/nitrites did NOT ever go up, and you have nitrates in your source water to start with, then you may have not even started the cycle.

To answer your question though... the nitrates are not going to magically disappear right away and you'll have to do water changes to get those numbers down as low as possible. As the tank matures, and under the right conditions, denitrifiing bacteria will convert the nitrates to nitrogen gas... but you've got a while before that happens.

 

[Ziggy953]

Okay, tank has been up and running for about 3 weeks now. I have about 80lbs of LR that came from a mature tank. Nitrites 0, Amonia 0, PH approx 8.2-8.4.

I would say that since the rock he is using came from a mature tank that he may not have seen a spike at all in ammonia or nitrites. With NitrAtes steady at 20-40 I think his cycle is pretty much complete.

 

[2nicewitit]

Nitrites and Amonia have never been past 0. I've never seen a "spike" since the LR was added and setup approx 2.5 weeks ago. In fact everything has been pretty much the same since i set it up 2.5 weeks ago. My only concern is the Nitrates being at about 20 to 40.

BTW, i'm using a RO/DI water system.

So with everything being pretty much constant over the past 2.5 weeks, would this be a good time to do a water change to try to bring nitrate levels down?

Thanks for the input.

 

[Fluff]

I agree with the advice given. You will need to do a pwc to remove the nitrates and continue to do them weekly or bi-weekly until the nitrates drop. Unless you have a hefty amount of macro algae in there to consume them, pwc's are your only option to bring them down.

 

[2nicewitit]

I agree with the advice given. You will need to do a pwc to remove the nitrates and continue to do them weekly or bi-weekly until the nitrates drop. Unless you have a hefty amount of macro algae in there to consume them, pwc's are your only option to bring them down.

You know something, you made me think of something. Is it possible to place macro algae in a media container in my prism skimmer. There is a media basket though i was just wondering if this is possible. I mean it is a hang on skimmer and the media basket cannot hold more than, idunno, .5 littre for a 46gal bow. Thoughts????

 

[Fluff]

My concerns would be growth and getting enough light to the macros. Depending on the type of algae you choose, they can grow pretty fast and that doesn't really give them much space. Also, you would need a light over the media container 24/7. I don't have a sump or refugium so hopefully some others will chime in. These are just my thoughts. I think in such a small container, you'd be very limited.

 

[2nicewitit]

My concerns would be growth and getting enough light to the macros. Depending on the type of algae you choose, they can grow pretty fast and that doesn't really give them much space. Also, you would need a light over the media container 24/7. I don't have a sump or refugium so hopefully some others will chime in. These are just my thoughts. I think in such a small container, you'd be very limited.

Yea i'd figure that. Thanks for the reply.

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

I would say that since the rock he is using came from a mature tank that he may not have seen a spike at all in ammonia or nitrites. With NitrAtes steady at 20-40 I think his cycle is pretty much complete.

All depends on how that rock was transported. I saw that about the "mature tank", but didn't want to assume that meant it wasn't dry for a week - even though it was from a good tank. And not knowing source water, well... those nitrates could've been there from day one.

Nitrites and Amonia have never been past 0. I've never seen a "spike" since the LR was added and setup approx 2.5 weeks ago. In fact everything has been pretty much the same since i set it up 2.5 weeks ago. My only concern is the Nitrates being at about 20 to 40.

Something doesn't sound right... if you're using RO/DI water with 0ppm nitrates, and you never saw any ammonia or nitrites, and the tank doesn't have any livestock, then where are the nitrates coming from? If it was me, I'd throw in a cocktail shrimp or some fish food and watch for ammonia. But that's just me...

 

[2nicewitit]

Okay, now on week 3 w/ the cycle. I conducted a 20% WC approx 3 days ago and nitrates still at approx 20, nitrites 0, amonia 0 and ph approx 8.2-8.4 however i'm starting to notice alot of hair algae growth. Do you guys think i should have my metal halide on for approx 8-10hrs / day while cycling? I think it is promoting the algae groth. I plan on another 20% wc in the next few days. Thoughts????

 

[Ziggy953]

Having the lights on is fine during the cycle. The algae is growing because of excess nutrients in the water. Have you tested for phosphates?

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

Guess I'm still scratching my head...

You say you're still cycling, but if your ammonia and nitrites are at zero... you're done. BUT - you also say that you never saw any ammonia or nitrites show up. Sooo... did you ever put anything in the tank (fish food, raw shrimp, etc) to kick start the cycle? I know you said you used rock from an established tank, but without throwing something in there to decay you can't really be sure you're good to go. And if you WERE good to go, then the longer the tank sits without an ammonia source to feed the bacteria, the more chance that the bacteria will die off and you'll experience a cycle when you add fish.

Basically, you have to options as to where you're at:

1. You're cycled, and after water changes to reduce the nitrates can add fish
2. You haven't even started cycling, and have to add an ammonia source to kick start the cycle.

It seems like you're waiting for something, but I'm not sure what...

 

[roka64]

I agree, throw a pinch of food in the tank and test for ammonia in 3-4 days. If you see ammonia, you will need to add an ammonia source, such as food or a raw, unseasones shrimp.

 

[2nicewitit]

okay, now i'm pretty confused my self. As of exactly one week ago, my nitrates 0, ph 8.4, nitrites 0 and amonia 0. One week ago, i did a 25% wc in the hopes of reducing nitrates.

This morning, i noticed a huge algae bloom covering just about everything.

I did some investigating and discovered the bloom is mainly because of the phosphate levels. Wish i new this as i did not have a phosphate test.

Today, levels are the same w/ amonia being at 0, nitrites 0, ph at 8.4 and nitrates still at 20.

I just came back from the LFS and picked up an amonia remover to put in the media basket of my red sea skimmer along w/ a phosphate tester.

Phosphate levels are high at 2.0.

I'm litterally doing a 40% WC using ro/di water, trying to reduce some of the levels mentioned above.

I'm real confused now and hope what i'm doing is more benefincial or detrimental?????? Any thoughts would be GREATLY appreciated. Thanks,

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

1. What is in your tank as far as livestock? If you're not feeding the tank anything and it's just sitting there, the only place you can get 2.0ppm phosphates is from your source water. Did you test your RO/DI water for phosphates?

2. Why did you get an ammonia remover if your ammonia reads zero?

3. And finally... what did you do to kick start the cycle? If you don't understand the question, then just ask, please! But if you're just blowing it off, just let me know so I'll stop bothering asking about it everytime!

 

[roka64]

okay, now i'm pretty confused my self. As of exactly one week ago, my nitrates 0, ph 8.4, nitrites 0 and amonia 0. One week ago, i did a 25% wc in the hopes of reducing nitrates.

I am now scratching my head like Kurt...You say you have 0 nitrates, but you did a PWC to reduce nitrAtes....Just trying to figure this out.

Today, levels are the same w/ amonia being at 0, nitrites 0, ph at 8.4 and nitrates still at 20.

Now the levels are the same but you have nitrAtes? This is where I'm getting confused...

What type of tests are you using and can you get your LFS to test the water so you can verify your tests aren't bad?
Remember, there are nitrItes and nitrAtes, don't use the wrong test/card for reading the results.

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

Roka,

Think you misread the post. Look back on previous posts... both ammonia AND nitrites have ALWAYS been at zero. 2nicewitit has never seen any measurable ammonia or nitrites. However, it sounds like the nitrates have been there from near the beginning.

Nitrates need to come from somewhere, and you have two choices:

1. The water you're mixing with your salt mix, or
2. Something decomposing in the tank (fish waste, food, etc)

 

[2nicewitit]

Roka,

Think you misread the post. Look back on previous posts... both ammonia AND nitrites have ALWAYS been at zero. 2nicewitit has never seen any measurable ammonia or nitrites. However, it sounds like the nitrates have been there from near the beginning.

Nitrates need to come from somewhere, and you have two choices:

1. The water you're mixing with your salt mix, or
2. Something decomposing in the tank (fish waste, food, etc)

Yes all readings have always been zero w/ the exception of nitrates that have been steadily at approx 20.

They have been this way for approx 3.5 weeks.

i'm trying to reduce nitrates by doing approx a 40% wc.

I personally belive the nitrates have been there since day one when i got the LR from a mature tank.

When transporting the rock, it was out of water for approx 1.5 hours.

Throught the 3 weeks or so, i've been see a gradual increase in algae. And this morning i just seemed to noticed a whole lot more than before.

I've never tested for phosphate until today and determined that the phosphate levels were reading approx 2.

I've been usin an ro/di since day one. Just out of curiosity, i checked the phosphate levels from the ro/di and they read approx .5. It is a 4 stage ro/di and i've only had it for about a month.

So i guess right now, my main objectives are to reduce the algae...which i take i have to reduce phosphates...thus doing more frequent water changes. And my second objective is to reduce nitrates...again doing more water changes.

So just to be clear...and i really appologize for the confustion...i know my tank has been cycled when amonia is 0 and nitrites are 0 right?

To reduce the levels in the current levels...phosphates and nitrates i just have to keep up w/ the WCs right? (is there a specfice percentage and frequency that you recommend?)

And w/ my current readings...when do you think i should start seeing changes in the phosphate and nitrate levels?

Thanks for all the help, its been greatley appreciated.