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Old 03-22-2005, 01:31 PM   #1
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What should I know about lr?

Per advise I received here I'm going to make a lr purchase from lr.com instead of a cleanup crew just as soon as my tank is finished cycling. I have a 75g tank with approx 70# br. I will probably be getting 40# lr.
I've read of a couple of different ways to try to get rid of unwanted hitchhikers - dunk the rock in either a high saltwater mix or, water containing no salt. Which is best and for how long do I leave the rock submerged?
Also, should I call and ask for smaller pieces to spread out over my br or just place the order over the web and accept what I get? I ask that because I read so many posts here that say they "talked" to so and so at lr.com and I'm wondering why they called instead of just placing the order?
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Old 03-22-2005, 01:50 PM   #2
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I suggest neither. Hypo or hypersalinity dips will cause stress on the desirable things on and in the LR as well as the unwanted items. I a new tank like yours, I would just put the rock in and wait and see what happens. If you identify any unwanted critters they can be delt with in time.
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Old 03-22-2005, 01:58 PM   #3
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If you call, you can tell them what you have and they will pick out rock that should work nicely with your size tank and existing base rock.
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Old 03-22-2005, 03:39 PM   #4
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My initial addition of LR went right into the main and all is great. I have picked out some crabs but not many. As Lando said dont use high or low salt to dip the rock. If you do dip it use tank water and flush it into the holes with a turkey baster. You can also use seltzer water that is the correct sg and flush the rock with it if needed.
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Old 03-22-2005, 03:57 PM   #5
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you call to get the discount for being a member here first of all, second you can tell em what you want exactly...

As for the dip I did a colder hypo salentiy soultuion, dipped for 5 seconds, caught anyting that came out of the rock into a bucket then dunked again.. then put it in my main
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Old 03-22-2005, 05:05 PM   #6
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I purchased some LR when I started my tank a while back and was told to just fill a bucket with clean water, dunk the rock to clean it and remove any noticable dead material. This appearently caused no irreparible damage because my LR is flourishing again.

As far as putting it directly into the aquarium, this depends much on what condition the LR is in. If it's fully cured, you can probably just go ahead and add it to your tank and your tank will be fine providing it was not out of water too long.
If it's only pre-cured or not cured at all, then never add it to an established tank as there will be die-off and your tank will begin cycling all over again.

In your particular case, you mention you are cycling now. You don't need to wait to add live rock after the cycle. Just go ahead and add it now. All live rock, pre-cured or fully cured will cause the tank to cycle at least a little bit as all LR will have some die-off no matter what you do, unless you stole it from your friend down the street or purchased it at a local fish store and it was already cured and it was not out of water long.

In my case, my LR was pre-cured. I added it to my not yet completely cycled tank and within 2 days, the tank was in a full cycle all over again with ammonia maxed out at 8+ ppm again due to die-off. 3 weeks later, my tank stabilized and all Ammonia levels and Nitrite levels dropped to 0 again and the LR is flourishing with life.

Note to anyone adding non or pre-cured LR. Look it over carefully including all the little holes. Make sure you remove as much die-off as possible including clams and snails and such in the holes. This will speed your cycling as you won't have as much die-off polluting the tank.
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Old 03-22-2005, 05:53 PM   #7
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Well now I am confused. If I purchase it from lr.com do I or don't it wait for my tank to cycle? I know there will be some die off from shipping but didn't think it would cause a spike like that. At 1 week my ammo level was at 1 mg/L (with 2 raw shrimp), I am due to test again tomorrow. My Salifert color chart only goes to ">2", not sure how that relates to ppm? Is my ammo almost ready to drop?

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you call to get the discount for being a member here first of all
Cool, I didn't know they offered a discount. What can I expect for a 40# order?
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Old 03-22-2005, 09:51 PM   #8
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I believe LR.com rock is uncured, so put it in as soon as you get it. I'd probably take what's left of the shrimp out then too.

Timing-wise, what's important is not whether your tank has finished cycling or not, but whether you have any livestock in the tank that you want to protect from a potential big ammo source (if yes, you want to avoid putting anything but totally cured, right-from-the-tank LR in your tank).
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Old 03-22-2005, 10:21 PM   #9
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I believe LR.com rock is uncured
liverocks.com rock actually comesfully cured. It is safe to go right in the main, baring any overly-long transport times. They a very good job at packaging the rock and it arrives in great shape. Most here have not experienced any ammonia spike after adding it to the tank.
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Old 03-22-2005, 11:05 PM   #10
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Most here have not experienced any ammonia spike after adding it to the tank.
So I wait till my tank has cycled, correct? I have nothing in there now (except for zillions of microbubbles from my skimmer which are not as amusing now as they were at first )
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Old 03-22-2005, 11:11 PM   #11
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What are you using to cycle your tank? YOu certainly can "precycle" your tank before you put in the good LR. This will help preserve the life on the rock if it does not have to go through the cycle.
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Old 03-22-2005, 11:22 PM   #12
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I have had 2 raw shrimp in since filling it 10 days ago.
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Old 03-22-2005, 11:34 PM   #13
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Substrate? Any other mechanical filtration?
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Old 03-22-2005, 11:39 PM   #14
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Sorry for the bad advice . Actually, reading their site it sounds like they try to ship it to you directly from the ocean ASAP so it hasn't been cured and doesn't need it, which might explain its great quality. So yes, I would say wait til the tank has cycled, add the rock and let it sit for few days at least, test and if all good, start livestock, slowly.

On the skimmer, I thought it's better to have your skimmer off during the shrimp cycle - just PHs. Anyone?
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Old 03-22-2005, 11:47 PM   #15
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I have a 4" sand bed (no ls) and ~70# of base rock. I also have a canister filter (only using the micro filtration pad it came with right now).
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Old 03-22-2005, 11:54 PM   #16
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On the skimmer, I thought it's better to have your skimmer off during the shrimp cycle - just PHs. Anyone?
I've heard it both ways so I just flipped coin. Well, actually I wanted it to be broken in and hopefully finished spitting out the microbubbles. I have the cup adjusted pretty high and it only collects very little. What it does collect is basicly clear so (right or wrong) I just dump it back in the tank.
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Old 03-23-2005, 09:58 AM   #17
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have a 4" sand bed (no ls) and ~70# of base rock. I also have a canister filter (only using the micro filtration pad it came with right now).
Sounds good. It may take a bit longer to cycle without any exsisting bio-media but that is okay. once you notice amonia/nitrite have spiked and dropped and you get some detectable nitrates you should okay to add the LR. In a new tank such as yours you could very well see a small ammonia spike from the die-off on the rock. No big deal, just have enough aged SW on hand to do a water change if needed.
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Old 03-23-2005, 11:31 AM   #18
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I waited until my tank cycled before adding the LR. I figured, this way any ammonia spike would be minimized. You will almost certainly get some new ammonia, as some of the shellfish wil likely get squashed during shipment.

As far as the dips, I recommend doing something. I used club soda into the holes, and pulled out crabs, bristleworms, and a mantis shrimp. Unfortunately, another mantis shrimp appeared after I completed my aquascape. VERY FRUSTRATING.

I have read TONS of posts from people who report no damage at all from freshwater or hypersalinity dips of 1-3 minutes in duration.

I wasn't sure, though, so I used the club soda method, I just missed a hole, I guess.
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Hitchhikers: the usual suspects :crabs, bristles, urchin, mantis shrimp (now in exile in mantis tank)

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Feather duster. PJ cardinal, Bangghai cardinal, Firefish goby, Clownfish, Neon goby, Yellow watchman goby, Orchid dottyback. Various corals.
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Old 03-23-2005, 03:56 PM   #19
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I have read TONS of posts from people who report no damage at all from freshwater or hypersalinity dips of 1-3 minutes in duration.
I suppose the key in this is that they report no VISIBLE damage. How do you know what life you've lost? It won't be there to know you lost it. I would think that the more sensitive life on that rock cannot survive a FW dip..especially if they are clinging to life as a result of being out of water for 20 hours or so.

Once you lose that life, it is extinct in your system unless reintroduced later.

My philosophy is to keep as much alive as possible and selectively remove what I don't want to keep later. That might mean dealing with crabs or otherwise, but that is the trade off we all must decide on.

Your rock should do very well since you've already established some bio-filtration on your 70#s of base rock. Any unfortunate die off will be more easily dealt with by your system as a result.
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Old 03-23-2005, 05:45 PM   #20
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I was under the impression by reading a few posts on this form that introducing rock from lr.com (which is cured rock) to a new tank would most likely cause a very short cycle due to the amount of bacteria on the rock.

I've read where lr.com key's rock cycled tanks in 1-2 weeks.

Anyone have any experience with this?

I'm planning on cycling with nothing BUT 60lbs keys rock and 40lbs live base rock from lr.com next week. Am I reading that I should have cycled my tank first to avoid die off?
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