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Old 05-15-2007, 05:10 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MT79
His prices have gone too high for my taste. For only 20-30 more you can get actual LR.
$2.52 for 50Lbs is no where close to my LFS at $8 per LBs
$2.52x150=$378
vs.
$8x150=$1200 +Tax
I do agree his prices have gone up, but I also got my shipping for free.
Ok, you got me on a technicality, I should have said base rock will become "live"...lol....(then translate/insert "live" to IMO,FWIW,JMHO...)...are bristleworms bad? lol....
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Old 05-15-2007, 05:36 PM   #12
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Online you can get 45 lbs LR for right around $160 shipped, on a couple sites.
50 lbs base from marco is $126-175(w/out shipping).
His prices have definitely gone up. I was looking to buy some BEFORE the increase. Looks like good rock, but for the new price I'll take live instead. The site actually used to have free samples.
Quote:
are bristleworms bad? lol....
No. They are great scavengers/detrivores. Sometimes if they get very big they can cause issues, but not normally. Some people are quick to yank them but I think many people w/ experience w/ them would agree they are very beneficial critters to have.
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I should have said base rock will become "live"...lol....(then translate/insert "live" to IMO,FWIW,JMHO...)...
I'm not trying to pick on anyone or start an argument, but I think "live" is more than just bacteria when talking rock especially. That could be misleading to someone new, looking at that LR at the LFS for $10 a lb w/ no life on it. Good LR provides many, many more benefits than just surface area.
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Old 05-15-2007, 06:05 PM   #13
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Well we will just have to agree to disagree then. IMO the live part means the nitrifying bacteria that run the cycle. The critters and worms and other stuff are in LR but not everybody has the same thing but everybody does have the nitrifying bacteria on your rock if it is cured. You could put all BR in your tank and it will become live over time with no critters in it. That is IMO and IME.
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Old 05-15-2007, 06:13 PM   #14
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You could put all BR in your tank and it will become live over time with no critters in it
It will provide space for nitrifying bacteria, but thats it. I would not consider that a tank w/ LR. LR provides much more(bugs to eat excess food/detritus, natural plankton chains for coral and other filter feeders, etc). That is why you need to seed base rock w/ LR- for the critters. NOT the bacteria. The bacteria occurs naturally- why pay for that? You could use cinder bricks and get the same effect.
Your definition is a very loose one IMO, and doesn't encompass all the benefits of actual LR from a reef.
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Old 05-15-2007, 06:34 PM   #15
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Old 05-15-2007, 06:51 PM   #16
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^ Right. And the readers can decide which makes more sense.
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Old 05-15-2007, 07:39 PM   #17
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I tend to look at what will benefit my tank. I began using "live" rock soley for natual biological filtration. IMO, that is what the tank actually benefits from. Sure, sponges, macro, coraline and the like are wonderful visable life to have and add so much TO the tank. However, they do not comepete in what DO for the tank. As mentioned, the other stuff is not without value for sure, but would LR really be a as big of a benefit to the tank if you took out the bacteria cultivation property?
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You could use cinder bricks and get the same effect.
Very true...but it is kind of an "apples to oranges" comparison. If the point is going natual, then cinder blocks do not really fit the bill.

In short...I think a tank will be healthier with lots of drab-looking LR in it then with a small amount of LR that has a variety of visable life on it.
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Old 05-15-2007, 07:52 PM   #18
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tank. I began using "live" rock soley for natual biological filtration
That encompasses a lot. Eating detritus/excess food, as the pods, worms, etc. do, is a form of biological filtration.
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but would LR really be a as big of a benefit to the tank if you took out the bacteria cultivation property?
Would it be a benefit if all the critters were removed? Not so much- only for converting nitrogenous waste into nitrate. It would be like an inefficient wet/dry or bio-balls. Both are basically obsolete on reefs b/c LR, and all the animals it comes w/, works better.
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with lots of drab-looking LR in it then with a small amount of LR that has a variety of visable life on it.
Seed the base rock w/ LR, at least 30% LR is the general recommendation, and you have the best of both worlds.
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Old 05-15-2007, 07:53 PM   #19
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Seed the base rock w/ LR, at least 30% LR is the general recommendation, and you have the best of both worlds
Now that is some advice I think we can all agree on.
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Old 05-15-2007, 08:02 PM   #20
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ok, this is my thought process:
cured/cycled=live

If you agree to that equation, your logic states:
my cured base rock is not live because it does not contain "bonus critters" on it
uncured rock can be live because it may have the "bonus critters" even tho it doesn't have the beneficial bacteria on it...
so where in the equation does the "live" come into play?
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