2 Goldfish and 1 Dead Snail

[LightRaven]

Hello Everyone!

I would appreciate some advice here.

I am very new to fish keeping. However, my brother has been helping me out... he had Oscars for almost 10 years. One month ago, I bought my daughter a Black Moor Goldfish (Nero) for her 2nd birthday.
A few days later, my brother added a fancy goldfish to the tank (Rex) for his daughter. Along with Nero and Rex, I also added a black mystery snail, Gary (yes, like in Spongebob), to the tank.

Aside from Nero being particularly pushy (he bugs Rex alot, but no fins are being munched on and Rex doesn't seem to care), the three have lived in harmony for the past month. Tonight after coming in from work, my brother had informed me that he believed that Gary went to the fish farm in the sky.

Now, I was told by the petstore employees that when a snail dies, they float. He was not floating. After further examination of the tank, I concluded that Gary's shell was empty. I noticed a small brownish disk in the gravel towards the back of the tank and had my brother fish it out... I found out through some googling that it was apparently Gary's "Door".. which keeps crabs and such from digging snails out.

Me and my brother have tossed ideas back and forth as to what caused Gary's untimely demise. Two weekends ago, the girls got a hold of the fish food and dumped the ENTIRE can into the tank. Nero and Rex had a field day while I tried to skim what I could out... then proceeded to change almost half the water, vacuum the gravel, rinse all the plastic plants and their little cave, clean out the filter as well as replace the cartridge. I am still having problems with the tank, and am thinking about doing a full water change this Thursday, when I have off from work. Nero and Rex got quite fat from this little episode.. Nero more so then Rex.

I don't understand why Gary died, let along where Gary actually went. Did my daughter and niece kill the snail with the overload of food? Did all my cleaning activity deprive Gary of his Algae, even though we always dropped Algae wafers in there? Did Nero, my Fat, Bossy, Black Moor Goldfish eat Gary? Gary was bigger than Nero's mouth... could he have pried him out or was his feast post-mortum? If Nero didn't eat Gary.. where are his remains?

Any help would be truly appreciated!

LR

 

[Zagz]

Welcome to AA! What size tank do you have them in? Also do you test for ammonia, nitrite and nitrates? What do you do for regular water changes and how much each time? What kind of filtration?

There are a few things that come to mind, but without knowing some of the above answers no point throwing them out there.

 

[LightRaven]

Thank you Zagz. I have a 20 gallon tank. I've been told and have read that you need 5 gallons per goldfish... up to 15 gallons per goldfish. I took the middle road...

I bought basically a TopFin starter kit. It came with the tank, the filter, the lights and lid, even a net and some sample fish food. I couldn't tell you much about the filter.. except that my brother does not think it is powerful enough and has suggested replacing it. He is apparently not fond of TopFin products.. but was not with me when I bought everything.

I do not test for amonia, nitrites, etc. (I'm gonna rat my brother out.. he told me not to worry about it.. that you can smell when the water is "off").. but now I see that it looks like I should after looking through this forum a bit. He did test the pH level yesterday and said it was off. Which is what is prompting me to do a full water change...

LR

 

[LightRaven]

Oh, Also, I do a partial water change every Sunday... about 1/3 of the water. I have a gravel vacuum siphon thing that I use to suck up the debris in the gravel.

 

[Zagz]

Ph is fine as long as it is stable. Do not try and adjust it. Do extra water changes and keep the water pristine and the fish will recover. Smelling water does not tell when it is off. Ammonia and nitrite are toxic to fish and can be present with no smell at all.

 

[missileman]

I am new myself but have 3 tanks, 2 new ones , 1 has cycled and the other is in the middle of cycling now and a used tank that was already cycled when I bought it.
I test every day and I can tell you that the amonia and nitrites can spike overnight and needs to be taken care of imediately or you could lose fish.
Get a test kit, Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Freshwater Master Test Kit is probably the best choice but test strips are better than nothing.
Completely cleaning the filter probably delayed or even restarted the cycle but partial water changes and gravel vacs do help.
PS: I do use Cycle Biological Water Conditioner which is basically beneficial bacteria in a bottle to speed up the cycle and it works great , others will recommend fishless cycling but you already have fish so you will have to go with what you have.

 

[LightRaven]

Thank you for the suggestions. I will go out today and get a test kit.

I am hoping though someone can answer my question about the snail though. We can assume that perhaps poor water conditions killed him. I still would like to know where he went. Should I just assume Nero ate him?

 

[Zagz]

Cycle contains no live beneficial bacteria and will not speed up your cycle. Products such as bio-spira which contain live bacteria and need be refrigerated to keep the bacteria live will help with your cycle.

 

[jsoong]

Actually, snails are almost all water & they decompose pretty quickly. I would find totally empty shell within a day of the snail's demise.

As to what killed the snail .... prob. high ammonia from the overfeeding +/- disturbing the cycling bacteria due to the filter pad change. Snails are more sensitive to ammonia compared to goldfish, so they would be affected first. OTOH, it is also possible that the snail died from old age or other ailment. (You don't know how long they have been at the lfs or what shape they are in to start.) So, don't get too beat up about the overfeeding episode.

I totally agree that you need your own test kit to keep track of water parameters, esp. in a small tank (2 golds in a 20 is small), where things can get out of hand quickly.

 

[missileman]

Cycle contains no live beneficial bacteria and will not speed up your cycle. Products such as bio-spira which contain live bacteria and need be refrigerated to keep the bacteria live will help with your cycle.

Not to be argumentative but this was suggested by my local fish expert,
has worked tremendously well with my limited experience with it, has good reviews online and does claim to have beneficial bateria.
Direct quote from the product:
"Hagen Cycle Biological Aquarium Supplement is an ideal mixture of massive amounts of beneficial bacteria, nitrosomonas and nitrobacter"
Take it for what its worth, it worked well for me.
PS: fishless cycle is by far the way to go if possible.